I was issued a Model 19 2 1/2" and later a Model 66 2 1/2".
W-W Treasury ammo?
- Thread starter LittleAugieMo
- Start date
I was issued a Model 19 2 1/2" and later a Model 66 2 1/2".
Before carrying such lightweight bullet ammo for SD, be sure to check for 'crimp jump', or whatever it is called. Yes, it also happens in .38 Spl ammo with 110gr bullets, not just .357s so loaded. I've had it happen with Federal's version of the 158gr FBI load and restricted it to larger steel frame guns.
A side note, I wonder how many of us carrying revolvers for SD will thoroughly 'wring out' a potential defense load to the tune of a box or two. Realistic practice, and any ammo flaws likely to show up.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
A side note, I wonder how many of us carrying revolvers for SD will thoroughly 'wring out' a potential defense load to the tune of a box or two. Realistic practice, and any ammo flaws likely to show up.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Shoot it in your K-frame and enjoy the brass.
I recently fired some 1988 Federal 357B 125 grain JHP - it was as accurate and blasty as when new.
I recently fired some 1988 Federal 357B 125 grain JHP - it was as accurate and blasty as when new.
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I can't seem to get past why it is called +P+ instead of ++P 
It was 40 years ago and much was not settled on labeling new LE ammo.
WW +P+
My agency issued that round for duty carry in the 80's. We carried it in 2 and 4" model 10 K frames. I was a FA instructor and have seen thousands of rounds of that go down range through K frames.
I clocked some of this 80's vintage LEO ONLY +P+ 110 JHP last year from my Labradar.
Out of a 4" K frame it averaged: 1064 fps with a SD of 6.
My agency issued that round for duty carry in the 80's. We carried it in 2 and 4" model 10 K frames. I was a FA instructor and have seen thousands of rounds of that go down range through K frames.
I clocked some of this 80's vintage LEO ONLY +P+ 110 JHP last year from my Labradar.
Out of a 4" K frame it averaged: 1064 fps with a SD of 6.
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I have some of that. Mine is marked "Law Enforcement Only". Is yours marked that way? If so maybe the dealer just made an assumption it had to be surplus. They normally did not sell this through normal retail channels. I have a friend who is LEO and he ordered it for me from a Police Supply during one of the shortages. They could get all the ammo they wanted. It's in both bedside guns. One Model 15 and an SP101.
As an old coot, let me make a historical reference or two.
.38 Spl +P+ was the way to get near .357 Magnum performance without the evil .357 MAGNUM headstamp. Back then, the libs were frothing at the mouth about expanding bullets and downright hysterical about the thought of LEAs using MAGNUMS on criminals (but they didn't use that term). IIRC, most Federal agencies issued 19s/13s but they were "only loaded with .38 Spl" to minimize the uproar.
FWIW, the Federal 9mm BPLE +P+ that managed to make it into private hands didn't chrono much/any hotter than +P. But that stuff may not have met contract specs and been allowed to escape to the regular distribution network. *
I'm old enough to remember .38 Hi Speed/.38-44 being on shelves. Back then it was regarded as N frame/New Service fodder rather than for the smaller guns. About the same time, S&W had prototype J frame .357s. They were never produced as it was felt there wouldn't be a market.
*Much later addition: I was able to read one of the hold harmless agreements the purchasers of +P+ had to sign as part of the procurement contract(s). It warned of use causing accelerated wear of firearms and possible serious injury or death for the user. Presumably if used in .38 Spl firearms.
.38 Spl +P+ was the way to get near .357 Magnum performance without the evil .357 MAGNUM headstamp. Back then, the libs were frothing at the mouth about expanding bullets and downright hysterical about the thought of LEAs using MAGNUMS on criminals (but they didn't use that term). IIRC, most Federal agencies issued 19s/13s but they were "only loaded with .38 Spl" to minimize the uproar.
FWIW, the Federal 9mm BPLE +P+ that managed to make it into private hands didn't chrono much/any hotter than +P. But that stuff may not have met contract specs and been allowed to escape to the regular distribution network. *
I'm old enough to remember .38 Hi Speed/.38-44 being on shelves. Back then it was regarded as N frame/New Service fodder rather than for the smaller guns. About the same time, S&W had prototype J frame .357s. They were never produced as it was felt there wouldn't be a market.
*Much later addition: I was able to read one of the hold harmless agreements the purchasers of +P+ had to sign as part of the procurement contract(s). It warned of use causing accelerated wear of firearms and possible serious injury or death for the user. Presumably if used in .38 Spl firearms.
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sigp220.45
US Veteran
I’d shoot it out of anything it would fit into. 110 grain bullet at 1000 fps is just not that hot, scary headstamp notwithstanding.
Here are two full boxes from back in the day when this was issued ammunition. The Federal case heads are "F C" and a two digit date. The Winchester case heads are WCC+P+ and a two digit date.
Possibly someone has posted photos previously, but here are two genuine "Treasury Load" .38 Special boxes of ammunition.
Possibly someone has posted photos previously, but here are two genuine "Treasury Load" .38 Special boxes of ammunition.
Attachments
I got a box of the 110 +P+ Win at a gun show one time. LE only stuff. I still got 40 of the 50. I took it out with a K frame snubby and fired it outdoors. Pretty big flash IMO and my ears rang with hearing protection. Outdoors. Well maybe the 2 inch barrel was wrong to use but it satisfied my curiosity and I had enough. States 23500 CUP on the box. Maybe in the 6 inch N frame next time if there is one. Shoot or not? You can get modern ammo that is similar and at some point it will be collectible but depends on how long you got to wait.
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In my agency we carried it in our N Frame Model 28 Highway Patrolman revolvers. I saw a training film in which California Highway Patrol fired it out of their K Frame (Model 68?) revolvers. It had a good reputation for stopping power.
I’ve got a few boxes of Federal 9mm 115 gr. +P+ ammo for my Colt 9mm Carbines.
SnidelyWhiplash
Member
That’s what I shoot in my Colt 9mm Carbine. I asked Colt whether it was safe to use. My answer was “Blast away!”
