Walther 9x18 Ultra

[delta-419]

I was looking way back in the safe and found a gun from my past, one that I have never shot. It looks almost unfired, its because I have never found ammo for it, the Walter PP Super or known as the Ultra. It was designed for the German police, but only 2000 were manufactured and it had a very short service life as a police gun. I picked this one up around 1985 at the PX in Germany and never found any ammo. I recently found some brass cases marked "GECO 9x18 Ultra" and it started me on the hunt to find all the components to make it work. I figured it would use standard 9mm FMJ 115gr bullets with a diameter of .355. I need load data from someone who has an Ultra and reloads for it or where I can find published data. I could use data for the Russian Makoroff 9x18, but that is a different size bullet. Anyone reload for this old obsolete Walther?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

In my collection I have a box of 9x18 Ultra by Geco. The box says it has a 94 grain flat nose bullet. (NO, it is not for sale!)

My only reference book to list it is "The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions" from 1987. On page 526 it references Handloader #68, page 18. And lists a 100 grain bullet with 6 grains of Unique.

A friend has made 9x18 Mak. by shortening 9mm Lugar brass. That would be better than all it takes for the recommended using of 38 Super brass!

Ivan

 

[glenwolde]

It's basically a long .380. If I had to guess at it I'd use .380 data and go up until it cycled. I think I'd look at .380 bullets. Like maybe 100 Grain 380 Bullets | 380 Bullets for Reloading

Did you get your brass here?

Graf Brass 9x18 Police Unprimed Bag of 100 - Graf & Sons

 

[delta-419]

9mm Ultra Components

I did order 200 cases of 9mm Ultra brass from Graf and Sons along with 200 bullets (FMJ 100gr) from Hornady. Appreciate the reference to Graf and Sons. Have never done business with them before and was surprised that they had the brass. I will work up a load using both 9mm and .380 data from Hodgdon. After 35+ years in my safe I will finally see how she shoots. I am going to see if I can find an old copy of " The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions" and read up on this Walther. Guys, thank you for your help!

 

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

9x18 Police cartridge

I have a PP Super and the correct cartridge for it is called the 9x18 Police, not the 9mm Ultra. The dimensions of the 9x18 Police and the Ultra may be nearly the same, but As I recall the Ultra is an older cartridge and may have been loaded hotter than the 9x18 Police, but I am going from memory here. The Makarov round may be the same length as the 9x18 Police, but the bullet diameter is significantly larger (.366” IIRC), so is not interchangeable with any .355 9 mmx19/.380 ACP/9x18 Police cartridge.

The 9mm Luger is a tapered case whereas the .380 ACP and 9x18 Police are not. Midway used to have the 9x18 Police from time to time.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

What I can find indicates that RCBS 9mm dies should work, but with a 380acp shellholder: aim for around 1000fps with about a 100gr .355" bullet and you should be in the ballpark ballistically...?

Don't try to use 9x18 Makarov brass or bullets (a totally different size!) but their load data might be a pretty good place to start...? As far as the 6gr Unique reference goes, I would start quite a bit lower and work up once the rounds cycled the action reliably.

Be Safe, Good Luck & Cheers!

P.,S. There was a beautiful Mauser HSc in this caliber on the Guns for Sale forum years ago: I really was interested, but decided not to take the plunge because of these exact reloading issues...

 

[delta-419]

Walther 9x18 Ultra/Police

I was looking for ammo on GB for this old gun and saw a number of these guns listed, but none with these kind of grips. I know these came from a surplus sale purchased by the Army PX when I was in Germany in '85. I noticed that the mag is a very tight fit and looking at the feed lips there is no room but an exact size for bullet seating. I'm thinking this gun is probably over engineered with very close tolerances! No room for error. A picture is worth a 1000 words.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Case speciation
____9mm Ultra___________________9mm Lugar
bullet dia.; .355"_____________________.355"
trim length; .708"____________________.754"
head dia.; .385"______________________.392"
rim dia,; .370"_______________________.393"
COAL; .990"_________________________
Case CAP .610 CC_____________________.700CC
Case Cap 9.42 grains of water___________ 10.8 gr.

Case forming, from "The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions":
First method, use 38 ACP or 38 Super brass, turn down rim, FL Size in 380 die, trim to length

If I was trying I would experiment with 222/223 brass.

Ivan

 

[STORMINORMAN]

The reason I suggested the RCBS 9mm dies (RC20515) is that's how they are advertised at Precision Reloading...

That's how they are listed on the RCBS site as well, under "9 x 18mm Loading essentials".

Cheers!

 

[DWalt]

I am going to see if I can find an old copy of " The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions" and read up on this Walther. Guys, thank you for your help!

It won't tell you any more than what you have already seen here, mainly it just gives the case dimensions. The only load shown is the one with 6 grains of Unique behind a 100 grain bullet. As someone else here said, I would try using .380 loading data and work up the charge weight until you get reliable functioning. If you already have factory brass ordered, there is no reason to fool around with converting other case sizes. Were I converting I would probably start with one of the rimless 9x23 cases sold by Starline. Trimming long pistol cases to a shorter length is a chore I don't recommend.

 

[rkj1313]

Had a PP Super, went with a wife. I miss her, the Walther PP that is. I also have 6-8 boxes of Ultra ammo I would sell if interested.