Walther PPK in Skyfall... 007, Bond, James Bond

[DCWilson]

S&W and Walther are DIVORCING.
3 AGREEMENTS INVOLVED.
The first agreement concerning the distribution of
imported Walthers ends April 2013, two other
agreements run longer before their end.

Lower profit margins, let alone splitting it may be
the cause along the S&W Shield market popularity.

Distribution will be handled by a newly formed business entity, but according to the report I read S&W will continue to manufacture the PPK (and, I presume, the PPK/S) for that new company. Looks like Walther imports will not be handled by S&W, but that's about it.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Seems to me that changes won't matter much to anyone except accountants.

 

[mbliss57]

Wow I had no idea I would get this response. My comment about procuring a bio-metric pistol was "tongue in cheek".
I did know that Bond has changed to the higher caliber 380 auto along the way but never did I think there would so much detailed info on the subject. Thanks for some of the history I did not know.
I will undoubtedly have to rewatch it as I did not catch Q saying PPKs only PPK. I am sure I could look it up but that wouldn't enable me to go see it again

 

[sipowicz]

Many years back I remember reading about a ring that had to be worn of the shooters hand for the gun to operate. I wonder what ever became of that idea...

 

[Dragon88]

The gun is shown in this trailer, go to 1:05.

SKYFALL - Official Trailer - YouTube

 

[steamloco76]

LOL, he probably did mean 20 yards. At my local range, I'm usually the only one with a target at 25 yards. Seems like the most popular distance is 7 yards and even at that range most targets look like somebody's patterning a cylinder-choked shotgun at 50 yards.

Amen to that.

I was disappointed with my first groups out of a new to me Para .45 at 50 feet. Shooting offhand I was keeping them all in the head of a reduced combat target. Still, that is 5-6 inches and I can do much better. As I was packing to leave, two off duty LEO's came in and set up at 21 feet. They were both slapping each other on the back for keeping their Glock .40's in the 6 to 10 rings on full size combat targets- that like a 12 -15 inch group firing slow with a two handed hold. Yech!

As for the Bond books and films, the debate over 007's miniscule firearm and his prowess with it is amusing to me. Fictional characters can do amazing things. Heck, remember Rico Tubbs in Miami Vice? He could kill a running perp at 100 yards with a single one-handed shot from his Model 36!
The PPK's I've shot over the years were fairly accurate at 25 feet and easy to handle with one hand. They also jammed with alarming frequency. Very picky about ammo. Bond should carry a SIG P238 as a BUG and a P938 as a primary.

 

[45Wheelgun]

What a superb photo! Thanks! I based my 318 comment on Bond having told M that he'd used the Beretta .25 for 15 years, and this was in 1958. I think the 418 was introduced about 1949, if I recall correctly from J.B. Wood's Beretta book. We discussed this on the Beretta forum, and concluded that it had to be a 318. But the guns are very similar. Later 418's had a different grip safety.

As usual, pictures of my guns are done by Smith357 and he gets credit here as well.

My understanding was the the 318 ended production in 1937. My 418 is dated 1948 (on the frame visible in the picture), and has the alloy frame and cocking indicator which are later modifications to the 418.

The Beretta is lost/replaced several times in the books. While they never mention him using an alloy framed Beretta, I choose to believe that it is the "shiney new Beretta" that "M" gave him at the end of Moonraker.

 

[mjr]

Many years back I remember reading about a ring that had to be worn of the shooters hand for the gun to operate. I wonder what ever became of that idea...

I think Massad Ayoob may have bought the rights to that company or became a distributor or something. He certainly recommended it. The system required a minor modification to Smith & Wesson revolvers and required the user to wear a powerful magnetic ring on each hand. People still used floppy disks back then and handling them wearing magnets on your hands probably didn't work out very well.

 

[DustyJacket]

ps. in the books, Bond's 25 got snagged in his holster and got him shot. That is why he was forced to switch. .

It was in his waistband, not in the holster, and it was actually the silencer that got caught.

Which made the whole thing about changing guns kinda stupid.....

 

[MikeChandler]

I think Massad Ayoob may have bought the rights to that company or became a distributor or something. He certainly recommended it. The system required a minor modification to Smith & Wesson revolvers and required the user to wear a powerful magnetic ring on each hand. People still used floppy disks back then and handling them wearing magnets on your hands probably didn't work out very well.

That's also a great way to erase your credit and debit cards!

 

[Texas Star]

As usual, pictures of my guns are done by Smith357 and he gets credit here as well.

My understanding was the the 318 ended production in 1937. My 418 is dated 1948 (on the frame visible in the picture), and has the alloy frame and cocking indicator which are later modifications to the 418.

The Beretta is lost/replaced several times in the books. While they never mention him using an alloy framed Beretta, I choose to believe that it is the "shiney new Beretta" that "M" gave him at the end of Moonraker.

I think the 318 was actually INTRODUCED in 1937.

On the Beretta board, someone showed one with steel frame (I think he tested it with a magnet) and an Italian -issued holster. That gun was a bring-back from the war by a relative of the lady who now owns it, I think her father. One member tried to buy it, even the holster alone, as it is uncommon, not being an issue item. The officer who carried it probably bought the gun , and was likely pretty high ranking, small autos appealing to senior officers who seldom experienced real combat. It was also a prestige symbol to infer that one was so important that he wouldn't personally have to use his pistol. I think they said this war trophy gun was made in 1940.

I can check Wood's book again, but am almost certain that 1949 was the intro date for the early Model 418. All that I've seen had the alloy frame, which sometimes changes color. Maybe only alloy frames were exported to the USA?

I missed the, "Moonraker" reference to the shiny new Beretta. In that case, Bond would have probably gotten a Model 418, even a Model 950! That would mean that his statement to M in, "Dr No" meant that he had used that TYPE of Beretta for 15 years, not the same gun. That would make sense, and he probably got a Model 418 as the new one, it being the model then produced.

 

[45Wheelgun]

I can check Wood's book again, but am almost certain that 1949 was the intro date for the early Model 418. All that I've seen had the alloy frame, which sometimes changes color. Maybe only alloy frames were exported to the USA?

You might want to check that book again as the 418 pictured above is dated 1948 on the frame (visible in the picture). Also, you might want to read the link I had above, they pretty well eliminate the 950 as an option at anytime for bond.

My understanding is that the 318 was released in 1935 and changed to the 418 with the addition of the cocking indicator in 1937. Steel frame is the by far the most common, but you may be correct about the importation of alloys into America.

Here is some additional detail:

Beretta mod. 418 - Berettaweb(c)

 

[Cyrano]

Never owned nor fired a PPK. But, I don't remember having a malfunction in my 7.65mm Manurhin PP (made for Berlin police?), and I feed it mostly cast bullet handloads.

 

[Kavinsky]

Love how they always forget that in Dr No the book bond was given two guns in addition to one handcannon in the car.

A smith and wesson centennial for long distance work, the PPK for daily carry given its size and dimensions and the popularity of 7.65 when it was a cop cartridge in germany and the rest of the world

and then either a colt new service revolver in .45 long colt or a .44 magnum blackhawk in the dash of his car.

now realistically it would need to be atleast .380 anyways if he was going to america.

 

[imjin138]

I have both PPk/s and a PP and both are German made and I like both of them except they bite me. I worked at Shootes for a few years and we had one customer who was German and was Polizei. He saw me shooting my PP once and told me it took him a full magazine to shoot through a windshield.

 

[Texas Star]

I have both PPk/s and a PP and both are German made and I like both of them except they bite me. I worked at Shootes for a few years and we had one customer who was German and was Polizei. He saw me shooting my PP once and told me it took him a full magazine to shoot through a windshield.

And that is especially interesting, because in one book, Bond shot through the windshield of a train with the .25!
I regarded that as being "literary license".

I did read the link above, and it has some interesting stuff. But I think his bilbio. link to the, "Sports Ill." article, "The Guns of James Bond" was not written by Fleming, but by Boothroyd. However, it has been decades since I read it, and I could easily be wrong. I think this may be the article where it was revealed that Fleming had read an, "American Rifleman" story evaluating various enemy pistols of WW II against our .45 auto. It was an unfair comparison in some regards, matching apples to oranges. It is one thing to compare a Tokarev or P-38 to a .45, another to compare a Sauer M-38H or PPK to the .45. If you can locate that article in the Mar. 10, 1962 issue of Sports Ill.", it is well worth reading. I did read the same "AR" article that Boothroyd gave Fleming, and it would not have led me to select the PPK. I'm quite sure that Fleming was focused on a very concealable gun.

He got confused when Boothroyd suggested the Centennial .38 for the carry gun and an M-27 in .357 for the car gun. B. told me that he in part had ammo interchangbility in mind with that combo. But F. got the .38 confused with the much larger and heavier .357 and Bond took the Centennial to Crab Key. F. said that there were various barrel lengths, 3.5 inches, five inches, etc. That made it obvious that he was thinking of the .357, not the Centennial. I think B. cringed in horror when F. had the Maj. Boothroyd character speak those words!

I don't think that B. ever suggested a PPK. That was F.'s idea. When the M-60 .38 appeared in 1965, B. was quick to acknowledge it as the best Bond gun, for the stainless construction as well as the general advantages of small .38's. But F. had died by then, so nothing came of it.

B. def. wrote an article in, "Guns" about the 007 weapons. Alas, I don't recall the date. He had an enormous knowledge of fireams, both antique and modern. As for silencers, he thought that most people in Europe, at least, wouldn't identify a gunshot as such. They'd think it was a car backfiring or something else. To test that theory, he once shot out some candles with blank .450 ammo in a Colt SAA .45. No one called the cops, although neighbors must have heard the shots.

However, I suspect that if the shots had been fired in an adjacent hotel room, the results might have been different. I'm pretty sure that modern residents in Los Angeles might suspect gunfire!

 

[mkk41]

LOL, he probably did mean 20 yards. At my local range, I'm usually the only one with a target at 25 yards. Seems like the most popular distance is 7 yards and even at that range most targets look like somebody's patterning a cylinder-choked shotgun at 50 yards.

I've knocked down more than a few steel rams at 200yds with my .41 mag.

 

[mkk41]

Not sure if they (German police) used the .380. IIRC , they went to the Walther PP Super in 9x18 Ultra after trading in their 7.65mm PPs.

 

[Texas Star]

Not sure if they (German police) used the .380. IIRC , they went to the Walther PP Super in 9x18 Ultra after trading in their 7.65mm PPs.

The PP Super was never widely used. The replacement guns for most 7.65mm's were the Walther P-5, SIG P-225/P-6, and H-K P-7. All in 9X19mm. Dutch police also widely adopted the P-5.

Quite a few P-6's have been sold off here. Most have the hammers cut away partly so they'd show if dropped and bent. That would alert armorers to possible gun damage.
The H-K USP seems to be the German Army pistol. Not sure about current police guns.

 

[Skeptic 9c]

Remember the times, the British captured a load of equipment when they devastated the Italian Army in North Africa, until the Africa Corps arrived, then it was touch and go until Allied air controlled the Med. Large numbers of Berettas of various types went into the arsenal of the various British Secret Services, the 1934 was popular and the nearest thing to a standard. Rubber bands around the grip were taught as well, we use fancy ones today which are much more expensive, back then they were cut from discarded bicycle inner tubes.
Geoff
Who takes the information from various books he read in his days as an impressionable youth.

 

[Dalkowski110]

In another forum I go to, I've always maintained that the literary Bond would be best served with an Ortgies .32 ACP. He likes small calibers, he likes concealability. It was very accurate, it was technologically far ahead of its time (striker-fired in the early 1920's, albeit without a safety mechanism that made carrying one cocked a bit dangerous), magazines would have been easy to come by, and Fleming probably would have been just ignorant enough of firearms to ignore the next-to-impossible assembly procedure. ;-)