Walther PPK/S - Buy Smith & Wesson Built?
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ColbyBruce
Member
Wasn’t there a recall on some early versions? A former co-worker of mine has one and carries it everywhere. I prefer hardball ammo in that type of handgun as it is unlikely you will obtain much expansion from the short barrel.
kilo charlie
Member
I have one of the “post recall” S&W PPKs. I run hardball ammo in it and it has been 100% reliable. Its a little snappy, but very accurate and fun to shoot.
Grayfox
US Veteran
I have one in .32acp. Mine has been completely reliable.
If your's needs the recall, send it to Walther, Ft. Smith, AR. They did the recall on mine and had it back to me in 8 days.
Don't waste your time trying to get info such as when and how many were made. According to S&W, all the records on these guns are in storage and unavailable. This is Smith's red-headed step child and they will barely admit they even exist.
If your's needs the recall, send it to Walther, Ft. Smith, AR. They did the recall on mine and had it back to me in 8 days.
Don't waste your time trying to get info such as when and how many were made. According to S&W, all the records on these guns are in storage and unavailable. This is Smith's red-headed step child and they will barely admit they even exist.
Pretty gun WR.
We have two 380s, bought new post recall, and they both run as they should.
No issues with our XTPs.
100/115/120gr Penn PC leads, or the 115gr XTPs as well as Hornady's 115gr FMJs.
BE and N320.
For those new to guns:
Best to lower the hammer with your thumb when decocking to minimize wear and tear. Just like my old M59.
When removing a loaded mag, the top round is a bit forward, so it needs a little pull.
Point shooting practice with Laserlyte yesterday.
Nice triggers as well.
They're most accurate when leaning against a palm tree and wearing a Tux.
We have two 380s, bought new post recall, and they both run as they should.
No issues with our XTPs.
100/115/120gr Penn PC leads, or the 115gr XTPs as well as Hornady's 115gr FMJs.
BE and N320.
For those new to guns:
Best to lower the hammer with your thumb when decocking to minimize wear and tear. Just like my old M59.
When removing a loaded mag, the top round is a bit forward, so it needs a little pull.
Point shooting practice with Laserlyte yesterday.
Nice triggers as well.
They're most accurate when leaning against a palm tree and wearing a Tux.
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Alk8944
US Veteran
I have a S&W built PPK .380 bought used. When I shot it the hammer was "following". It was sent back to Walther USA and returned functional. I have had no issues with the gun since. I have shot mostly various hollow-points. The only real issue I had is the extended 'beaver tail" that S&W added to prevent hammer or slide bite. The beaver tail struck the second joint of my right thumb and would tear the skin when firing. It was ugly too! Re-contoured the knuckle of the frame to be like original Walther guns and took care of that problem.
ACORN
Member
Pretty gun WR.
They're most accurate when leaning against a palm tree and wearing a Tux.
Don’t forget the martini!
OP
I'm looking at buying a S & W built (Talo limited, like pictured above) PPKS.
My reason in posting my question is that I have been told to stay away from the S&W examples. Much better to go with the new Arkansas built examples.
I trust you guys. Not so much the knucklehead's hanging out on the corner by the pool hall. LOL
Pass on this one, or invest in a new Arkansas built?
,
My reason in posting my question is that I have been told to stay away from the S&W examples. Much better to go with the new Arkansas built examples.
I trust you guys. Not so much the knucklehead's hanging out on the corner by the pool hall. LOL
Pass on this one, or invest in a new Arkansas built?
,
If you want it as a shooter / self defense pistol, then hard pass.
I owned an S&W built PPK/S. I like the PP series pistols and have several. The only one I ever sold was the S&W built semi-clone of the PPK/S.
S&W acquired the rights to build the PPK and PPK/S in the US and as a mature design all they had to do was put it in production. Sadly one or more of the folks running the project decided they could and should improve it.
Adding the lengthened tang was an effort to make it more appealing to people with large fleshy hands and or folks who think it needs to be shot with the modern high, thumbs forward grip.
Aesthetically, it ruins the lines, and practically with the sharp edges they left on the tang it isn’t much friendlier to the hand and it digs into the side in IWB carry, which is not a good thing on a pistol that makes sense to carry IWB due to its concealable nature.
Worse, they made a number of minor detail changes that resulted in not one but two safety related recalls and adversely impacted reliability on top of the safety issues.
Some of the changes were pointless and or shamelessly proprietary such as changing the dimensions of the grip frame so that existing PP and PPK/S grips would not fit. Some were just style failures, like adding the billboard style serial number.
And over all, fit and finish was nothing to write home about by Walther, Manurhin and Ranger standards. Most of the edges were left sharp and it came across as less refined than previous PP series pistols.
In short, they managed to alienate the traditional PP series fans with changes that did not improve the design, and failed to deliver an updated or quality product that would attract new PP series fans.
Despite its faults it still has its (small) set of fans, perhaps because it’s a S&W or because they just don’t know any better. But for the most part it’s a pistol that S&W quite rightly has chosen to conveniently forget.
——
I don’t have much experience with the current production PPK/S and PPK pistols, but I like the Ranger made PPK/S pistols as well as the Manurhin made PP pistols that I own.
Quality wise, after WWII, Manurhin built a better pistol than than Walther, which didn’t start fully producing them again until 1986. The post war, pre 1986 Walther PP series pistols were made by Manurhin with only the slides being roll marked and finished by Walther along with final assembly of the Manurhin made parts.
jaguargolf
Member
I have an S&W made PPK/s:
I do not recommend buying one.
Mine has constantly experienced failures to feed and extract with many types and brands of ammo.
It's been to S&W, it's been to Walther. It's been to my regular gunsmith who has a great reputation.
I can't trade it or sell it.
I'm going for broke: It is at cylinder and slide to see if they can work some magic with it.
I like small metal .380's I have a Beretta 85, and am down to one Colt Mustang Pocketlite. I am considering an Sig 232 I saw in the shop the other day.
I'm putting good money after bad to try and get the S&W PPK/s running right. I'm hopeful C&L can make it work. They list it on their website as a thing they do well.
I do not recommend buying one.
Mine has constantly experienced failures to feed and extract with many types and brands of ammo.
It's been to S&W, it's been to Walther. It's been to my regular gunsmith who has a great reputation.
I can't trade it or sell it.
I'm going for broke: It is at cylinder and slide to see if they can work some magic with it.
I like small metal .380's I have a Beretta 85, and am down to one Colt Mustang Pocketlite. I am considering an Sig 232 I saw in the shop the other day.
I'm putting good money after bad to try and get the S&W PPK/s running right. I'm hopeful C&L can make it work. They list it on their website as a thing they do well.
I have spoke of this before but my dept bought the S&W PPK/S for the administration staff of about half dozen guys. None of the guns would function reliably through a qualification course and there was whining about the grip with several getting hand cuts from the slide. All of the guns went back for evaluation and most returned with similar malfunctions. S&W asked what we wanted to do and the general consensus was to swap them for 442’s. The factory obliged so the staff guys got 442’s for plain clothes pocket or ankle carry and were also issued Sig 239’s in .40 caliber (same as investigators) for duty carry. Some even carried 229’s if they wanted the regular gun belt with all the accessories when they wanted to look like real cops…
OP
Enlightening and informative.
I'm glad I asked here.
The information you guys provided is well appreciated.
.
I'm glad I asked here.
The information you guys provided is well appreciated.
.
Marshal Tom
Member
I had one and sold it. It was terrible! I have two of the Interarms before that and they worked just fine. I would not own one.
Gene L
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I don't know about the quality or S&W PPK/S, but they get a lot of bad press. I have a Ranger-built PPK and it eats anything you can put into it. Another issue is I'm not sure the current USA will work on Smith made PPK/S. The new PPK/s have good reviews.
Grayfox
US Veteran
Yes, Walther USA will indeed repair S&W made guns. They will do the recalls and honor the warranty.
Do NOT send a S&W Walther to S&W for any work. There have been many horror stories regarding S&W fixing these guns. Extremely long waits, scratched up guns and shoddy workmanship.
They don't recoil under those circumstances, either.
__________________
I'm too old to Shake it or just about anything else,
so stirred it will be.
On a serious note, while our S&Walthers work as they should, I'd buy a Fort Smith and hope for the best.
I have read that some of those have issues.
Our M460 Carry, bought new, went back to Smith after just two rounds of Hornady's 200gr FTXs.
They replaced the trigger and cylinder stop.
Echo40
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I've owned a S&W PPK/S since 2016 and it has never once failed me. I actually put it through a rather extensive test once in which I was actively trying to make it fail, but it only hiccuped once when I attempted to chamber a round which had a substantial amount of bullet setback, ergo it was therefore completely out of spec and was unlikely to feed in any gun.
I carried this beauty from 2016 to 2019 when I replaced it with a Ruger LCP, but as you can tell by the series of pics I took of it throughout the years, it still holds a special place in my heart.
Sure, the LCP is smaller, lighter, chambered in the same cartridge, and only holds one less round in the magazine, but it's obviously nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing, and nowhere near as accurate either.
Purists will call Smith & Wesson blasphemous for daring in their hubris to think themselves capable of improving upon the design, but obviously they did, and Walther themselves approved of the changes because they were carried over to the latest iteration of the PPK(/S) produced by Walther.
Smith & Wesson improved on the feed ramp which was previously a two piece design which had trouble feeding modern Jacketed Hollow Point ammunition by making it into one continuous slope. In addition, they extended the beavertail in order to prevent the infamous "Walther Bite" from slicing open the hands of shooters as the original design was known to do because of it's stubby and frankly inadequate beavertail.
Once again, the purists will tell you that it wasn't a problem and accuse anyone who has suffered from slide bite while shooting a PP Series pistol of using an "improper grip" then proceed to "educate" you on the "proper" method of gripping the gun which is awkward, unintuitive, and strangely has never appeared in any instruction manual or official documentation for the gun.
Once again, Walther themselves has adopted the changes that Smith & Wesson made to the PPK(/S) which can be easily verified by checking out their website...
PPK/s | Stainless – www.waltherarms.com
It looks familiar, doesn't it?
I carried this beauty from 2016 to 2019 when I replaced it with a Ruger LCP, but as you can tell by the series of pics I took of it throughout the years, it still holds a special place in my heart.
Sure, the LCP is smaller, lighter, chambered in the same cartridge, and only holds one less round in the magazine, but it's obviously nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing, and nowhere near as accurate either.
Purists will call Smith & Wesson blasphemous for daring in their hubris to think themselves capable of improving upon the design, but obviously they did, and Walther themselves approved of the changes because they were carried over to the latest iteration of the PPK(/S) produced by Walther.
Smith & Wesson improved on the feed ramp which was previously a two piece design which had trouble feeding modern Jacketed Hollow Point ammunition by making it into one continuous slope. In addition, they extended the beavertail in order to prevent the infamous "Walther Bite" from slicing open the hands of shooters as the original design was known to do because of it's stubby and frankly inadequate beavertail.
Once again, the purists will tell you that it wasn't a problem and accuse anyone who has suffered from slide bite while shooting a PP Series pistol of using an "improper grip" then proceed to "educate" you on the "proper" method of gripping the gun which is awkward, unintuitive, and strangely has never appeared in any instruction manual or official documentation for the gun.
Once again, Walther themselves has adopted the changes that Smith & Wesson made to the PPK(/S) which can be easily verified by checking out their website...
PPK/s | Stainless – www.waltherarms.com
It looks familiar, doesn't it?
Pretty gun WR.
We have two 380s, bought new post recall, and they both run as they should.
No issues with our XTPs.
100/115/120gr Penn PC leads, or the 115gr XTPs as well as Hornady's 115gr FMJs.
BE and N320.
For those new to guns:
Best to lower the hammer with your thumb when decocking to minimize wear and tear. Just like my old M59.
When removing a loaded mag, the top round is a bit forward, so it needs a little pull.
Point shooting practice with Laserlyte yesterday.
Nice triggers as well.
They're most accurate when leaning against a palm tree and wearing a Tux.
115 gr XTPs? Good 9mm load but the 90 gr XTP is the norm for .380. There are the odd 115 gr load recipes, but even in a 3.4” barrel the velocity is well under what the 115 gr XTP needs to expand.
—-
Manually lowering the hammer is sound advice on an old PP series pistol as the surface hardening on the hammer and decocking block migrates deeper over decades of hammer falls and they’ve been known to break. All of the pre war PP and PPK pistols are now at least 80 years old.
It can also a be problem with much younger pistols. The M9 had significant issues with fire control part breakage with low round count but often function checked M9s. The repeated hammer falls and decocking required in the function checks were literally testing them to the point of failure.
——
Agreed on the palm trees and tux. Don’t forget they are also amazingly quiet when suppressed as evidenced by all the 007 movies where they just make a “pfftt” sound.
I’m also a fan of small all metal .380s. I have a Kimber Micro and an RIA Baby Rock, but also several of the FEG steel frame commercial pistols based on the PP, PPK/S and PP.
The AP9S and APK9S pistols imported by Interarms were very well made and very nicely finished. Interarms started importing them to this very high standard of finish after Walther terminated its contract with Manurhin, and before it was clear whether Interarms would be able to get distribution rights for the PP series pistols. Then they kept importing them as an option to their own Ranger made PPK and PPK/S pistols.
FEG APK9S, PPK/S and PP:
AP9S, APK9S and APK7S
The KBI imported FEG SMC was the smallest pistol imported after GCA 1968, using the magazine extension to squeeze in just over the minimum height restriction. They are not as nicely finished as the Interarms imported pistols, and with an aluminum frame are a bit snappier, but they are basically a an aluminum frame PPK clone.
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