Want to get yourself frustrated? Just try to teach someone proper screw tightness!

[BC38]

Some people never get the feel, others don’t know enough to worry about it. We have the Bubba class that puts max plus on everything. These guys are hard on precision devices and valves. Other extreme just as bad.
The torque drivers just what they need.

It takes a lot of practice to develop a "torque calibrated" wrist - or arm.
I've been wrenching and working on mechanical things for well over 50 years, and still don't ALWAYS get it right.

 

[chief38]

It takes a lot of practice to develop a "torque calibrated" wrist - or arm.
I've been wrenching and working on mechanical things for well over 50 years, and still don't ALWAYS get it right.

My learning curve for tightening fasteners came when I was a teen and got my first car. Back then I had over-tightened my share! I never had issues with leaving them too loose, just over tightening, but at about 20 years old I "got it"! Been fine since then.

 

[M1A4ME]

For some reason I've never had issues with overtightening/stripping out screws/threads. Put a lot of scopes on rifles and dot optics on pistols over the years.

Awhile back I got to thinking that as I get older I might have more issues "sensing" when tight enough was tight enough and bought one of those Wheeler Fat Wrench kits. I found it in the back of a cabinet when looking for a trigger shoe the other day. I moved it closer to the front of the cabinet, just in case.

Not trying to make fun of anyone else, just saying it seemed like good tool and good idea and someday I may find I need to use it.

 

[drayks]

Loctite 222

I like to "snug" gun screws to easy-does-it tight, but find use of NON Hardening Loctite is my go-to. Loctite #222 is rated at LOW strength and will keep a screw from backing out from vibration or firing. Great to use on optics. Just remember to clean screw and threads of oil and solvents before applying dab of goo.

 

[greenwellg]

Been wrenching since I was 15 (1965). Ran my own repair shop until I sold it at age 50 and built two houses for a huge tax free cap gain which is my retirement fund.
Oil drain plugs, 6 point box end wrench. Open hand slap on the box end portion toque to pain level. I think the requirement is 14 pounds. Never had on come out and the crush washers could be reused for years and over 100k miles. Stayed dry. I checked the threads when they came out and replaced them when the threads were distorted, had replacements in stock. If a new one was hard to finger thread to the bottom then chase the threads with a tap.
10MM bolts, 1/4 inch ratchet using middle finger only. The finger was your strain gauge. 12 inch pounds of torque, easy to snap off if you go stupid with a wrench. Can't remember the last time I broke one but that may be age versus technique LOL.
Phillips head screws into motorcycle side covers. Always us an impact (hand) driver to get them loose. In extreme cases a punch to the center of the Phillips head with some reasonably good raps with a hammer and then the corrosion bond is broken and you can get it out. Also if the head is buggered, peen the damage back to its original position the drive the CORRECT Phillips head bit into the repaired screw and it comes out virtually 100%.
I once broke a lug nut loose to get the backing plate off a car at pick and pull that THEY could not get off. Guy needed both rears for a state inspection and they were $600 each and one was unobtanium.
Estwig hammer jammed between the caliper and a hole in the rim. 2 foot breaker bar and a snap on socket hammered on the security lug nut until it carved its own hex sides by peeling off the metal on the lug nut. I had to jump on the breaker bar with all my 210 pounds to get it to move, praying to GOD it did not break and break my leg when it hit the ground. Got the backing plate off, waxed both of them and sent them to him in Massachusetts. He doubled my asking price.
This is my expertise, far more than S&W revolvers and the astronomical amount of knowledge on this forum. I seldom used a torque wrench except on critical parts and had snap on click type.
On guns I used impact FIRST then a perfectly fitting blade bit after peening the head that had been butchered by a previous attempt. After regrooving the slot heat the head then drop it in oil after finishing the job of filing and polishing your work. Most could not tell it had ever been touched.

 

[Tinkertech]

Unfortunately too many people use the precision German way "Good n Tight"
Seriously, tightening fasteners by hand is a learned 'art' that not the average DIYer can easily learn.
And you can't get a torque wrench to every fastener, just not enough room in most cases.
You either learn it over the years or not, mostly not.

 

[Rick H.]

Already much said on this subject, but I will add that experience is the best teacher in this area. Otherwise how does someone figure out how tight is tight enough? Yes some mistakes will be made, but don't make mistakes on critical parts. Scope mount screws and optic screws are a whole different ballgame, especially with Torx head fasteners. It's very easy to over-tighten them. Several years ago I bought a German made adjustable torque screwdriver to keep from making serious mistakes on firearms and it works great for that. More recently I have purchased and used Fix-It-Sticks torque limiters and they are now my "go-to" tool for tightening fasteners. If you think you know how to hand tighten a screw or bolt wait until you check your results with a quality torque application tool. You might be very surprised at your results. I now keep a Fix-It-Stick torque tool in my shooting box and range bag for those unexpected loose screw situations. They aren't cheap but how much does it cost to fix a stripped out or broken screw in a firearm barrel or receiver?

Rick H.

 

[Tom K]

When I was a kid growing up on the farm and working on plows and combines and such, my Daddy told me to "Tighten it as much as you can, and then a little more."

 

[StrawHat]

When I was a kid growing up on the farm and working on plows and combines and such, my Daddy told me to "Tighten it as much as you can, and then a little more."

Pop told me that also, until I reached my teens. Then it was “…tight is fine, don’t overdo it…”

Kevin

 

[rosewood]

Ruined several wheel studs/lug nuts on my Honda Accord when I was in high school. I would tighten with both arms. After I stripped the last one, I started doing a left bicep curl to tighten the lug nut. Haven't broken one since.

Everything else is German torque "gudentite". Ha.

I guess over the years, you get a feel for how tight to do things. I use a torque wrench on things that matter, head bolts, valve cover gaskets, scope rings etc. Brake caliber..."gudentite".

Rosewood

 

[Jack Flash]

Regarding an earlier comment about greasing the lugs on a car wheel:

I used to do that. First used grease, then graduated to anti-seize. Never had a problem.

Then I got from a reputable source that if the lugs and nuts are not dry, you can't torque them properly.

So now I just clean both as completely as I can and then put them together dry. Just passing this along for what it's worth.

 

[Heymatt]

The use of battery screw guns instead of hand screws or wrenches causes much of this problem. I would bet that less than 5% of the “professionals” understand the use of the clutch on those tools.

Kevin

Clutch? We don’t need no stinking clutch!

 

[Lance Boyle]

I remember as a young lad being my older brother’s helper on his electrical side jobs. following his direction of “tight is right, too tight is stripped” I installed a bunch of outlets in a new addition. Early on he bitched me out as one place he had to return to as an outlet quit working. I hadn’t got it tight enough to stay tight. I was doing snug and then snug it harder. Most of those devices have mediocre grade screws so the regular screwdriver blade will cam out damaging the slot if you go too crazy. That bothered me as I know any loose electrical connections can arc and get hot enough to cause a fire, same as a poor wire it connection.

After that I leaned more toward cranking really hard on those screws, damn the slot metal displacement. Electrical fires are no joke.

 

[Matt_X]

There's at least two problems encountered. One is about learning about the need to judge the situation and apply that knowledge and experience. The other is knowing how a threaded fastener is supposed to work because there are a lot of poorly, and technically faulty, threaded connections on products.

There's probably a a dozen ways to teach this as different folks learn different ways, but the bottom line is the threads need to very slightly deform below the yield point. In other words if the material deforms permanently, then there will be no tension and the screw will back out over time. If the material doesn't develop some tension, then its not tight. The other part of this is the screw must clamp the parts together. For a machine screw one would think this is pretty straightforward but we see lots of examples where this doesn't happen.

 

[Phenix]

I do quite a bit of mechanical work in my everyday retired life. That obviously requires screws, nuts, bolts, etc to constantly be removed and replaced. Teaching people how to make a fastener tight enough to hold properly but not come loose is a difficult thing, I have discovered. I encounter innumerable quantities of stripped screws, stripped sheet metal threads etc that others have cranked so tight, they have strip. I have used the expression many times right here on this Forum to "make screws tight - but not Gorilla tight". I also read many posts that people state things just come loose on their own - so they were most likely not properly tightened to begin with. Locktite is not the general purpose answer, learning what tight enough is and what over tightening is would solve many issues with fasteners and would not require the use of Locktite. This does not apply just to guns either but with everyday items as well.

When it comes to critical assemblies, yes I do use one of my half dozen torque wrenches. For the most part proper torque used on everyday items is something that can be learned by most people, assuming they are interested in learning in the first place. No one walks around with a torque wrench and most probably don't even own one. If they do, they are a tool that rarely gets used except when critical torque is required. Learning how to make fasteners tight enough is sort of a skill that is hard to teach people because they do not have built in torque wrenches - lol. That said, I constantly try even though it is frustrating at times.

I believe that more mechanically inclined people should try and pass this technique along to Guys and Gals who frequently have issues with fasteners coming loose on their own or fasteners that have been stripped out. Seems like such an easy thing for mechanical people but can be very frustrating when dealing with others who have no clue. I've encountering many fastener related issues on guns and attached accessories loosening up on their own and screws so damned tight they need to me persuaded off. Today I worked on a neighbor's ac unit and I'd say half the sheet metal hex head screws had stripped out the holes they were in. I had to replace the screws with the next size to hold the unit's covers in place and the stripping had apparently been done by so called professionals - now that is sad!! A simple task that is not easy to convey. Ok - well that is my 5:00am rant. Have a great day - hope this helps at least a handful.

Too many people use power tools to install sheet metal screws because it saves time, and in their haste they over-torque and auger out the heads/sockets.
I worked in the aviation maintenance industry for many years, and dealt with those same problems on a regular basis.
With aircraft, probably 90% of threaded fasteners have a torque value listed in maintenance manuals to be adhered to and documented.
Absent any guidance on how tight to install a bolt or screw, the proper method is to tighten 1/6 to 1/3 of a turn past a significant increase in felt resistance (torque). I use this method on lawnmower blade bolts, rifle scope ring and mount screws, wheel lug nuts, etc.
Anyone should be able to understand that, and with repetition becomes second nature requiring little thought.
I should mention that one of my top pet peeves (right up there with people that chew their food with their mouth open) is over-tightened screws, bolts, AND TIRE LUG NUTS.
More people having torque wrenches would only partially lessen the problem at hand unless the person has ready access to fastener torque value charts or manufacturer’s guidelines, which most don’t have and won’t try to find anyway.

 

[Phenix]

I remember as a young lad being my older brother’s helper on his electrical side jobs. following his direction of “tight is right, too tight is stripped” I installed a bunch of outlets in a new addition. Early on he bitched me out as one place he had to return to as an outlet quit working. I hadn’t got it tight enough to stay tight. I was doing snug and then snug it harder. Most of those devices have mediocre grade screws so the regular screwdriver blade will cam out damaging the slot if you go too crazy. That bothered me as I know any loose electrical connections can arc and get hot enough to cause a fire, same as a poor wire it connection.

After that I leaned more toward cranking really hard on those screws, damn the slot metal displacement. Electrical fires are no joke.

PRO TIP: smearing a small amount of valve grinding compound on the tip of your Phillips head screwdriver tip does wonders for keeping the tip from jumping out of the crossed slots in screws and augering out the heads.
Works even better when trying to remove a screw with some damage to the Phillips head slots that some idiot previously damaged during installation.
For some reason this does not seem to be common knowledge, even among professional mechanics. I will admit I did not find out about it myself until someone told me when I started working on Army helicopters years ago when I was 25 years old.

 

[65-2x2]

Back in the days of galvanized pipe for water systems, I was an apprentice plumber. The old journeyman told me to tighen the pipe as tight as you can then go one more round.

 

[Lance Boyle]

PRO TIP: smearing a small amount of valve grinding compound on the tip of your Phillips head screwdriver tip does wonders for keeping the tip from jumping out of the crossed slots in screws and augering out the heads.
Works even better when trying to remove a screw with some damage to the Phillips head slots that some idiot previously damaged during installation.
For some reason this does not seem to be common knowledge, even among professional mechanics. I will admit I did not find out about it until I started working on Army helicopters years ago when I was 25 years old.

I am going to try that. I have an otherwise perfect M14 USGI stock with rusty butt screws and sling loop that is hung up. I soaked it in evaporust and I moved it a bunch of turns before the rusty fine threads hung up. The working back and forth on the threads worked until it locked up good. It’s an extra stock that I wanted to camo up forest green and sand or maybe red dirt.

 

[Phenix]

Back in the days of galvanized pipe for water systems, I was an apprentice plumber. The old journeyman told me to tighen the pipe as tight as you can then go one more round.

Geez . . . .

 

[richrd]

Don't blame the tools.