want to remove and put back red dot sight without re zeroing; is this possible

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jbinbi

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Sorry for another red dot sight thread, but couldn't find the answer to this.

I am looking to get a red dot sight, I currently have NC scope. I am also thinking about getting an AR.

My thoughts were that I should get a reasonable quality sight, and it would be great if I could just take it off one and be able to put it on the other without having to spend time re zeroing it!

No idea if a)you can do this between 2 guns
b) if not between 2 guns, can I at least swap back and forth between scope and red dot on the same gun without having to re zero?
c) I found this primary arms red dot with a quick release which i was thinking is the way to do this https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_Micro_Dot_With_Removable_Base_p/md06lhmbundle.htm , I was hoping someone with some more experience than me could let me know the answers to these questions and set me on the right path. If this PA red dot is not the right quality to do this with, your suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
 
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some times u can get lucky but there will always be a chance that the zero will change,,,,, but most of the time its not by much
 
Unless you have been living very well and God is rewarding you for it, the zero on both guns will be different. Even if you zeroed it for one gun, the best you can hope for is being consistently off on the other one. As long as your mount is solid and your placement is exactly the same each time tou mount the optic you should be pretty close. Good luck.
 
I think you will be dissapointed if you want to swap your optic(s) between different rifles. Depending on mount quality and luck, you results will vary just taking it off the same rifle and putting it back on the same rifle.

I just took my Nikon Buckmaster 4-14x off my 15-22 and put it on my AR. The windage adjustment was pretty close but elevation was way off. I had to do a fair amount of adjusting on both to get the zeroed on my AR. Going back to the 15-22 will be another zeroing exercise because I wasn't smart enough to keep track of my adjustments.

IMO, the best thing to do is to outfit each rifle with its own optic & mount and don't consider swapping back and forth. Obviously this depends on available funds and if the wife will let you do it without bitching a whole lot.

Also, some folks like the zeroing exercise and find it fun, but I'm not one of them.

Good luck and happy accessorizing. :)
 
The chance of the zeros of two rifles with the same red dot sight being the same approach those of winning the lottery.

Easy enough to prove this for yourself.

The rifles need to be the same. Same model, same caliber, same iron sights, etc. M&P15-22 and your M4 5.56mm Carbine or Ruger 10-22 ain't gonna work for this test. But we know these won't have the same zero anyway. :D

1. Zero both rifles AT THE SAME RANGE (distance) with the iron sights. I recommend 50 yards. This is always the first step. Don't bother going any further if the iron sights on both rifles aren't zeroed at the same range.

2. Mount the Red Dot sight on your primary rifle. Mount on the farthest forward slot it will fit on the receiver, not hand guard as it can move or flex. Press the mount forward on the rail as you lock it in place.

Looking thru the iron sights (use the small aperture) move the dot to the tip of the front sight. Ideally the dot will be centered and split by the top edge of the front sight. This dot is now zeroed subject to minute adjustments, maybe a click or two, later on the range but good enough for now.

Note: To move the dot you need to move the adjustment screws in the OPPOSITE way the arrows specify. E.g. - To move the dot to the Left turn the adjustment in the direction marked Right. Same for Up and Down. The sights move in the opposite direction than the bullet strike.

3. Move the zeroed dot sight to the other rifle in the same slot (and press forward as you lock the mount). Look thru the iron sights (small aperture again) and note where the dot shows.

Highly unlikely it will be centered and split by the tip of the front sight due to variations in the several components that make up the rifle. Try different rail positions, but this normally won't cure anything.

-- Chuck
 
Ok. appreciate this info. Next question.

How about using the qr mount in the link i posted to swap between scope and red dot on the same rifle? Will this hold it's zero. So i zero say with red dot, take it off, use scope, put back red dot. Will it still be zeroed?
 
jbinbi said:
Ok. appreciate this info. Next question.

How about using the qr mount in the link i posted to swap between scope and red dot on the same rifle? Will this hold it's zero. So i zero say with red dot, take it off, use scope, put back red dot. Will it still be zeroed?
Click to expand...

Depends upon the rings/mount and where you mount it. I can switch between my Barska RDS and the 3-9x32 scope and both will be close in zero, but that's because I use Leaper/UTG quick release rings for the scope and a fixed base on the Barska. Both of these mount to an 0.5" aluminum riser and not directly to the polymer rail on the frame. While not perfect, the zero shift is about .25" at 50 yards. For my shooting, that is good enough.
 
What it comes down to is the purpose of the Red Dot, it was not designed for "pin-point accuracy". Not that accuracy cannot be achieved, the minute of angle representation of the dot alone is responsible for accuracy differences of .25"
I have an ACOG unit attached to a flattop AR-15, along with a detachable carry handle with fixed sights. Both have been sighted in and can be interchanged on the same rifle with negligible effect in accuracy at 100yds.
I have an ECOTECH mounted on an Ultimak gas tube mount on an AK-type rifle, the Ultimak mount is not as solid as the flattop AR, therefore accuracy is potentially not as good. That being said for the ranges that the AK is used for it is more than adequate, and maintains a reasonable 50yd zero better than I had anticipated. I remove and reinstall both scopes at time of usage, having done so as many as a dozen times for each weapon, reliability is acceptable. If I were to require with absolute certainty (battlefield conditions) that these rifles were zeroed in and performing to their best application I would double check the zero and leave the scope in place.
 
The ability to "repeat" zero depends in a large part on the rifle's rail and the sight mount. While not totally price dependent the less expensive mounts and rails are more likely to not completely to spec.

The Picatinny and Weaver rails are similar but not identical. Inexpensive mounts that work on both will be sloppy on one or both.

Picatinny cross bolts should be square section to fit securely into the square rail slots. Round bolts in a square shot is insecure. Some of the better inexpensive clone dot sights have at least the front edge of the cross bolt square to mate with the rear edge of the slot and not move during recoil. Better than round but still some slop.

And the comparatively soft plastic M&P15-22 rails aren't the best either.

-- Chuck
 
In a simple word, no. Repeatable zeroes are really only possible with top quality optics in top quality mounts. I would rely on a LaRue or ADM mount to be removed and return to absolute zero, but not any other brand (at least that come to mind, I guess there probably are)

This of course is on the same rifle, zeroes are not the same for different rifles.

My Aimpoint in Larue LT-150 returns to absolute zero, but you pay for what you get.
 
You could keep your telescopic optic on the top rail. Install a 45-degree offset rail adapter & mount a reflex dot.

Jubz's posted a photo in this thread, and the photo is re-posted below.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...gnification-optics-15-22-a.html#post135726323

11-28-10c.jpg
 
well if your planing on getting a ar15 and wanting to swap the optic back and forth between your 22lr and a rifle that is 223 you wont keep the same zero even if placed in same spot number one reason is bullet drop. a 22 drops faster then a 223 because of the power involved with a bigger cartridge. however swaping optics back and forth could work. while i was in afghanistan i worried about my red dot on my m4 loseing a zero when i removed it to clean the weapon but when it came time to me shooting the radiator of a car that was speeding towards my convoy i was able to shoot the radiator while moveing and i did it accuretly. so you should be able to take off your red dot and put it back in same exact spot and not lose zero. make sure to label where you place the red dot.
 
full_time_soldier said:
well if your planing on getting a ar15 and wanting to swap the optic back and forth between your 22lr and a rifle that is 223 you wont keep the same zero even if placed in same spot number one reason is bullet drop. a 22 drops faster then a 223 because of the power involved with a bigger cartridge.
Click to expand...

^ Exactly!


full_time_soldier said:
however swapping optics back and forth could work. while i was in Afghanistan i worried about my red dot on my m4 losing a zero when i removed it to clean the weapon but when it came time to me shooting the radiator of a car that was speeding towards my convoy i was able to shoot the radiator while moving and i did it accurately. so you should be able to take off your red dot and put it back in same exact spot and not lose zero. make sure to label where you place the red dot.
Click to expand...

First and foremost, thank you for your service.

Yup. If you have a good optic, a good mount, and remount the optic in the same marked spot, you can retain your zero when reinstalling the same optic on the same firearm.
 
While I don't have a 15-22 I do own several AR's in 5.56, I wanted the ability to mount/remount both a scope and red dot sight on one of them without loss of zero. After researching I found the GG&G QD mount for both a 30mm scope and EoTech, after mounting the bases to each and initial zero i can swap one for another and back with very little if any loss of zero between the two as long as they are indexed to the same mark on the rail with a firm forward pressure. This has worked out great for me.
As far as mounting between two rifles and expecting the same POI, forget it, it will not happen.
RD
 
Cheap rail, cheap optic, cheap mount. No way no how, never. So unless you some how got very lucky would it be at zero after remounting. Larue Rail and mount with a quality optic such as eotech, aimpoint, trijicon etc... and you may not be exactly zero but you can bet you will be with in 3 or 4 moa close to zero and that is good enough for me. Just my experience though. Your mileage.

Edit: Sorry i forgot this was the .22 cal forum. With that said... I do not recommend placing any of the equipment i just listed on a .22 unless you have a substantial amount of disposable income. Have fun shooting.
 
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Like others said

rifle to rifle - not gonna happen...could get close
same rifle - no problem



I suggest the American Defense mount if you go with the PA dot. It's available in a packaged deal. That's what I use and it returns to zero every time as long as I do it like Smithhound said (indexed to the same mark on the rail with a firm forward pressure).
 
I have that same MicroDot and mount on my 15-22. I take it off and remount it from time to time. No problem with zero shift. Though, as Chuck said earlier, you need to push it forward and square against the rail. The "QD" lever operation isn't up to par with decent hardware like LaRue or others.... it's really not even worth fooling with, IMO. I just just use the nut on the opposite side to loosen and tighten.

As far as regularly switching between different guns... that might sound like an entertaining idea but I'd pass on it. Regularly cranking on the elevation and windage adjustments is just asking for trouble. In general, dime store optics tend to be more reliable when they aren't monkeyed with too much.

I've been using two MicroDot for a couple years on .22 pistol and rifle, and have been quite pleased.



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