Warning For Glock Owners

[e3mrk]

I know it's a Smith and Wesson Forum but I feel the need to bring it up.
All the Glocks that have blown up when using reloads have one thing in common,The Chamber is not fully supported. Inspect a case after you fire a few rounds and you will see a small bulge on one side by the base. Regular reloading dies will not remove it and that is what damages the Firearm if you reload it without first running the case through a bulge buster die. Also there are companies that make after market barrels for Glocks that have fully supported chambers, I replaced my Glock barrel and have had no issues at all.

 

[Racer X]

I believe the problem was corrected starting with Gen 4 barrels. I have a Gen 4 Glock model 40, and a Gen 5 23 and 27.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This thread is bordering on not being about reloading. Mentioning the brass in the first post is the only thing keeping this thread in the Reloading forum so please lets try to keep it on subject.

 

[Geeorge]

I have a glock 17 gen 1 and 2 and they have been flawless and eat all sorts of ammo. I blame the ammo not the guns

 

[alwslate]

Wasn't this problem mostly with the .40 S&W caliber guns?

 

[kbm6893]

All I've shot in my Glocks is reloads.

 

[cmj8591]

I haven't done the math, but I'm guessing that the number of Glock's that have been destroyed is right in line with everything else. The problem seemed to crop up a bit more with the 40's, which I think was more about the pressure spike with that round causing the gun to unlock faster than it should than anything else. Supported vs unsupported chambers is one of those nit pick arguments that probably doesn't really have the importance that we give it. As an aside, I did a little experiment using aluminum cases to see how many times I could reload one. The case in the photo was fired several times in a Glock 45. The only reason I stopped was that it wouldn't hold a bullet any more. I wouldn't worry too much about your unsupported Glock. Size your cases as normal and as long as they have a normal load and drop into the chamber, shoot away.

 

[jeeps]

nothing to worry about

 

[scott1970]

I've put many thousands of rounds of my handloads through my Glocks with zero issues. And the same goes for several of my friends who load their own. I don't see a properly configured round as being an issue for a Glock based on our experience with Glocks and handloads.

Also, I primarily shoot cast ammo through my Glocks which seems to give a number of folks the vapors.

 

[Goldstar225]

I've reloaded for 9mm and .40 glocks since I was first issued one in 1994. My reloads have had no failures and I have not had to use a bulge buster, just standard RCBS carbide dies.

 

[Ignatz]

Over the many years of shooting, I've ran into different brass, reloading die sizer specifications, and shooting different pistol/revolver combinations that caused issues.
Back in the 90's, I was shooting a Model 52 and a Model 15 (that I installed a 6" barrel). After a while, I had trouble getting the fired cases out of the Model 15.
The Model 52's barrel chamber at the back end is greater than the revolver's straight cylinder. The RCBS sizer die would not take the fired Model 52 case and size it completely down all the way. I even ground a little off the RCBS sizer die on the bottom and it still didn't help.
I bought a set of Dillon 38 spl reloading dies and everything worked great after that.
So maybe in this case... A loose but in spec Model 52 barrel, a tight but in spec Model 15 cylinder and a sizer die that didn't completely size the fired Model 52 case.
Now to reloading in the 2020's. There was a time when you picked up once fired brass and it was Federal, Remington or Winchester. Now you pick up once fired brass from companies you never heard of and come from countries that your not quite sure where they are on a globe. The thickness, length, primer pockets and overall quality varies from brand to brand.
Next reloading issue I've run into. Coated bullets.
Where pre-Covid I went thru a case of coated bullets a month and never had any problems. Now after experiencing several pistol malfunction issues, oversized reloading bullets were the cause. 45 bullets sized at .453" and 9mm bullets sized .357".
Where these .357" bullets will work fine in a Federal, Blazer or Winchester case, they might not work in a CBC or Aguilla case.
As a revolver shooter from the 80's, to a Glock shooter over the past few years, I got to like the Glocks. My Glock 34 is the older two pin model and Its barrel chamber is tighter the my wife's Dan Wesson Pointman 9.
Reloading sizer dies are not equal, brass from different manufactures is different. Coated bullet manufactures might send you bullets a little larger than specified.
You might have a sizing die not doing its job. I use Dillon dies, probably because I reload on a 550. Many other competitive shooters use Lee dies. Over the years I've acquired RCBS dies and would never use the sizer die after different issues I've had with them over the years in different calibers. I'm sure there's a ton of RCBS users out there, but for me, one issue on a timed stage costs me points in a match.

 

[moosedog]

I was a Glock Armorer with Gen1 thru Gen 3 guns and all problems seen were from bad reloads. Thats why they recommend not to use them.
Follow instructions and you'll have no problems.

 

[loc n load]

I have been shooting Glocks for 35 years and have them in 9,40,357 sig,10mm & 45.:I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through my guns which are all gen1 thru gen3. I have never had any issues with deformed brass.
As a LEO instructor for 30 years I have seen tons of fired brass from a Glocks that exhibited no deformities.

Now having said that, the past two weeks I have been clocking 10mm loads through my G20, a mix of old/new factory loads and my handloads.
The group photo of brass is left to right:
1. A max loaded 40 cal w/180 gr bullet over AA9. (Fired in G20)
2. A 20 year old 10mm factory Hydra shok.
3. A 20 year old factory 170 gr Silvertip.
4- A factory federal 200 gr Punch. (Bulged)
5. A factory Federal HST 200 gr. (Bulged)
6. A Hornady 175 gr flex loc.
7. A max loaded handload of AA9 / 200 gr that exceeded the velocities of the two factory loads that bulged.

So two factory loads bulged, 3 did not, And two max loaded hand loads with a 180 & 200 gr bullet did not bulge.
The factory loads are my carry loads, so I am not going to have a bunch of this brass to reload.
Obviously this bulging is a matter of pressures in the two factory loads, as the other five Different loads show no bulges.
What intrigues me is that the 10mm on the far right was a 200 gr H/L at 1200 fps which surpassed both the factory 200 gr loads in velocity, and it not bulge.
So, after all these years of shooting Glocks in various calibers & loads I encountered 2 factory loads that bulged.
Pretty much a non-issue for me.

 

[Cdog]

I've used Lee's bulge buster for brass that was previously fired in an unsupported chamber.

I used the bulge buster to help this brass chamber reliably in tight match chambers of other firearms. I had a Dan Wesson PM7 that didn't get along with imperfections. It was worth the extra trouble though.

 

[desmobob]

My GenII M22 would leave some nasty bulges in some factory brass. I did buy the bulge-buster die for reloading but felt better switching out the OEM barrel for a Lone Wolf with full support.

 

[stansdds]

When it comes to Glocks, this problem was mostly related to pre-Gen 4 barrels. Glock improved case head support with the introduction of the Gen 4 pistols.

 

[TheTinMan]

I have never had a problem with the "Glock smile" on 9mm Luger cases.

I have seen 40 S&W and 10mm brass at the range with a distinct mark on the case where it should have been supported.

Normal 45 ACP seems to run at low enough pressure to not produce a problem; however, I have seen a few Glock smiles there too that I attribute to overly hot handloads. Please note that a tradition non-ramped 1911 barrel has an unsupported portion of the chamber as well. This is why a ramped barrel with a fully supported chamber is a requirement for a 1911 chambered in 9x23 Winchester (chamber pressure up to 50,000 psi).

The basic concept of a "bulge buster" die bothers me. If a relatively small portion of the case wall was pushed out through an opening (unsupported chamber) and then pushed back extra to get it back into shape, isn't that spot weaker in subsequent reloads? What if that spot lines up with the unsupported portion of the chamber again? No thank you.

 

[desmobob]

The basic concept of a "bulge buster" die bothers me. If a relatively small portion of the case wall was pushed out through an opening (unsupported chamber) and then pushed back extra to get it back into shape, isn't that spot weaker in subsequent reloads? What if that spot lines up with the unsupported portion of the chamber again? No thank you.

That's exactly why I decided to replace my barrel rather than continue to use the bulge-buster die.

I also eventually got a ridiculous deal on several thousand once-fired .40 S&W cases so, I can even leave them on the ground if I want to... (I'm too cheap at heart to leave them, though!)

 

[STORMINORMAN]

My personal experience has resulted in a grand total of three cases (40 S&W) thrown out during my normal reloading inspections because of the dreaded GLOCK "SMILE"(?), and I'm pretty sure they were not from one of my guns because I don't own any GLOCKs in 40 S&W to begin with!

I do shoot cast bullets on ocasion in 9mm GLOCKs (& clones) and have some aftermarket GLOCK barrels that seem, at least to me, to be more accurate than the factory ones... At least I seem to be able to shoot them more accurately for whatever reason?

I've thrown out (culled?) many more 45acp & 9mm cases just because I didn't like the way they looked. Early on I did experience one 45acp brass case that fired but blew out near the rim: it sent the steel magazine out of the forged 1911 and broke the baseplate: Wilson Combat to the rescue (with a new baseplate and spring for good measure)! It sits on my bench as a reminder of what can happen.

Cheers!

P.S. I changed my reloading brass inspection routine as a result and threw out some obviously older cases: I have, since then, over the years acquired enough brass that I'm typically looking at years between reloading the same brass lots for most of the calibers shot on a regular basis. I still reprocess, resize and bag on the FIFO inventory scheme: the oldest lots then get expanded and primed as needed.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Police academy instructor for 18 years right at the start of the Glock revolution, mid eighties. Mostly Glocks on the range. Thousands of recruits in that time. 1,500 rounds per, minimum. In fifty years I've seen two guns "blow up". Neither were Glocks, both using reloads. Coincidence?

I'm a revolver and Sig fan, don't really like the Glocks. But I don't believe the problem here is the gun. Retired, I now work as an RSO on a club range. There are plenty of times I hear bang, bang, BOOM. Ah, another reloader on lane 4.

Just like some people shouldn't own guns, some people shouldn't own a press. Sorry to say, some of those own both. YMMV.

 

[venomballistics]

As I recall the history of this issue, it was a 40 S&W issue.
Unsupported case head coupled to the higher operating pressure of the cartridge teamed up to make work hardened brass after a few loading cycles.
At least, that was the verdict many years ago.
Funny thing here is that despite ample opportunity within society to ignore warnings as they always seem to do, and keep the engines of chaos running hot loose and clean, This is the first resurgence of this warning I've seen in over a quarter century.
does it have legs?
I'll say the theory makes some sense from an engineering perspective. So, yes, It has legs. After this many years of silence of the issue, those legs are quite short.

 

[Miracle Man]

Police academy instructor for 18 years right at the start of the Glock revolution, mid eighties. Mostly Glocks on the range. Thousands of recruits in that time. 1,500 rounds per, minimum. In fifty years I've seen two guns "blow up". Neither were Glocks, both using reloads. Coincidence?

I'm a revolver and Sig fan, don't really like the Glocks. But I don't believe the problem here is the gun. Retired, I now work as an RSO on a club range. There are plenty of times I hear bang, bang, BOOM. Ah, another reloader on lane 4.

Just like some people shouldn't own guns, some people shouldn't own a press. Sorry to say, some of those own both. YMMV.

I'm no Glock fan either and I can't really say much about them, however.

I fully agree about some people having no business reloading. And I'd guess that's a big part of the problem. I would never get onboard with a "bulge buster" die. A compromised case fixer has red flag written all over it to me.

 

[venomballistics]

I'm no Glock fan either and I can't really say much about them, however.

I fully agree about some people having no business reloading. And I'd guess that's a big part of the problem. I would never get onboard with a "bulge buster" die. A compromised case fixer has red flag written all over it to me.

Thats my thought as well.
the bulge may be reformed, but only at the expense of work hardening. Each repetition takes it another cycle closer to cracking instead of just bulging.

 

[Valmet]

Wasn't this problem mostly with the .40 S&W caliber guns?

Yes. Particularly with the E-prefix Gen3 .40s (1999-2000ish). As far as I know it was resolved around 2001.

 

[SMSgt]

I know it's a Smith and Wesson Forum but I feel the need to bring it up.
All the Glocks that have blown up when using reloads have one thing in common,The Chamber is not fully supported. Inspect a case after you fire a few rounds and you will see a small bulge on one side by the base. Regular reloading dies will not remove it and that is what damages the Firearm if you reload it without first running the case through a bulge buster die. Also there are companies that make after market barrels for Glocks that have fully supported chambers, I replaced my Glock barrel and have had no issues at all.

I have shot a Glock 30 for years and never experienced "the bulge." I've collected countless .40 cases, many if not most fired in Glocks. I've never found one with a bulge. Likewise with 9mm cases. Nary a one. Early model Glocks did have a problem, but I don't see it.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

And I was knee deep in early Glocks and didn't see it. But police academy rules are factory loads. Again, coincidence?

 

[S&WIowegan]

The 40 caliber bulge

The bulge in 40 brass is not unique to Glocks. I have a 40 S&W ParaOrdance pistol built for me by Bruce Gray about 30yrs ago. The barrel has an unsupported chamber. New 40 brass can survive at least one firing, but if you resize that brass the next time it runs in unsupported barrel it MAY blow. I bought a 5 gallon bucket of once-fired 40 brass and had it all roll-sized. I shoot it once and leave it at the range. We can re-size bulged brass but that does not re-strengthen that brass(can't be done). I've seen a 40S&W race gun blow up during a USPSA match. Shooter unhurt, gun very hurt!

 

[Miracle Man]

And I was knee deep in early Glocks and didn't see it. But police academy rules are factory loads. Again, coincidence?

And let me just clarify before I ruffle any feathers.

I think Glocks are fine firearms. I just can't hit nuffin with them, lol.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This thread is way off topic now. It should have been put in the pistol forum.

We are done here...