Washington State is bought and paid for by Microsoft and Bloomberg

[...] you now need to do a firearm transfer to buy a roman candle at the fireworks stand??? (it defines a firearm as any device that propels a projectile by the means of gunpowder) [...]

I was not thinking fireworks while I read that portion. I doubt they will enforce it that way, but who knows? More important to me I 594 requires paper work transfers for all muzzle loaders manufactured after 1998 and all 19th century cartridge guns for which ammunition is available. They worded the definitions of firearm and antique the way they did to get every gun they could in the state's computer.

[...]The news (print and electronic) media in this state is about as "anti gun" as they could get.

That's 100% true but nothing new.

Very few liberals believe I 594 will reduce crime. They just have a vision of a thoroughly regulated world which expands their government payroll and the power they have over their neighbors. Guns are a particularly sensitive issue because they symbolize a limit on that power.

I best shut up now. I have never been dinged for violating forum rules and I want to keep it that way.
 
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OK, I'm ready for the new I-594 code to take effect. It passed and I was on the losing side. My wife and I just had a discussion about it as she voted for it. Actually, I usually do the BC thing anyway because I rarely make a purchase from someone other than a dealer. I have a friend who has a FFL and he cuts me some slack. He still has to log it all though and I still get my gun info sent to the county sheriff and they send it to Olympia where they put it into a registration. I also had a BC when I got my CPL.

So I guess I don't really have any strong convictions about BC's. I did however vote against I-594 because it was poorly written, it's unfunded and unenforceable. If it was a good tool for LE they would have said that but they didn't endorse it. It will create more problems than it solves because again, it is poorly written and something other than what it claims to be. The state supreme court is going to chop this thing up into little pieces and if it ever sees the light of day it will be a small fraction of the original version.

I just want everyone to understand that what goes around comes around. If a voters ID or voter certification initiative ever comes before me for a vote I'm going to vote for it. If it's good for gun owners it's got to be good for voters. Prohibited person, now that has a nice Orwellian ring to it. We could even create a whole new class of disenfranchised people with that.
 
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NY has it and it is unenforceable. Without registration it is pointless but that is next on their agenda is to have all firearms registered like NYC.

JAmes
 
One of many reasons I'm glad we moved here to retire ten years ago.
 
One of many reasons I'm glad we moved here to retire ten years ago.

Pat - heads up, my fellow gun enthusiast. They're coming your way.

"But even as they toasted the passage of I-594, supporters were anticipating legal challenges by gun-rights advocates. John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, said his group would help defend I-594 against any challenges.

“I think that the results in Washington tonight for 594 are overwhelming,” Feinblatt said. “We made a major commitment to it, and we will see it through to the end.”

Everytown for Gun Safety is gathering signatures for a similar initiative in Nevada, and future campaigns are being planned for Arizona and Maine, according to Feinblatt."
 
I've been pissed ever since the elections... :mad:

I've been slowly seething also. I've read I-594 twice and I seen a few loopholes which could be used against anyone. Here's a few items and I apologize for the long post but it feels like a lifelong rant.

Sec 5. (2)(b) "However, a chief of police or sheriff, or a designee of either, shall continue to check the department of social and health services' electronic database ..."

This gives the chief of police or sheriff the legal ability to keep tabs on gun owners without a warrant. What happens when you give up/sell your firearm(s)? They can still keep track of you.

Sec 8. "The department of licensing shall have the authority to adopt
rules for the implementation of this chapter as amended."


This gives the dept of licensing a free pass to adopt new rules to implement I-594 without any oversight.

Sec 5 (b) "The dealer is notified in writing by the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff"

Two conditions must exist; 1. eligibility and 2. chief of police or sheriff approval. One person can deny you purchasing of a firearm without a court order, deny your 2nd amendment right.

Sec 5 (4)(e) "if the records of disposition have not yet been reported or entered sufficiently to determine eligibility to purchase a pistol, the local jurisdiction may hold the sale and delivery of the pistol thirty days in order to confirm existing records in this state or elsewhere. After thirty days, the hold will be lifted unless an extension of the thirty days is approved by a local district court or municipal court for good cause shown."

Sec 4 "a licensed dealer may not deliver any firearm to a purchaser or transferee until the earlier of:...(2) Ten business days...has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, then the time period in this subsection shall be extended from ten business days to sixty days."


If either of these condition exists...

Sec 3 (4)(c) "A temporary transfer of possession of a firearm if such
transfer is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm
to the person to whom the firearm is transferred if:"


does not apply for up to 60 days because

Sec 3 (4)(c)(ii) "The person to whom the firearm is transferred is not
prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law;"


Its basically says treat people as guilty until they can prove innocence. I can think of two senario where this could be deadly. One is a person escaping an estrange relationship, moves into the state and wants to buy a gun to protect themselves. They will pass the NICS but won't pass WA gun laws. Remember, this now encompasses not only ftf and gunshow transfers but FFL dealer transfers.

The second senario would be any snafu in filing by the clerk or a backup then that person is ineligible for up to 60 days. Noone is allowed to lend a firearm to them. I wonder how many estrange relationships 'incidents' happen within 60 days of break-ups?

It also works in the opposite direction. If you can't pass a NICS check, it doesn't matter if you are eligible under WA gun laws. I-594 requires the ability to pass both. Now, other states dictates if a WA resident may own a firearm.

Well, you know how I feel about this law.
 
This initiative doesn't have a prayer in the state supreme court. In the off chance it gets through there it will go to the fed district court. We are in the 9th district and they have been shaking things up for 2A rights lately. This isn't the 2nd district that keeps validating anti 2A state laws in the NE.

This initiative goes way beyond a simple BC. All it really needed to do was state in one simple sentence that everyone who purchased a firearm had to do so through a FFL and pass a NICS check. That will probably be the outcome when it gets into court. The risk it runs now with the language that's in there is it could be thrown out completely as it is way too complex and totally confusing to everyone, including FFL holders and LE.
 
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How do you FFLs interpret this?

NEW SECTION. Sec. 8. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW to read as follows:
The department of licensing shall have the authority to adopt rules for the implementation of this chapter as amended. In addition, the department of licensing shall report any violation of this chapter by a licensed dealer to the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives within the United States department of justice and shall have the authority, after notice and a hearing, to revoke the license of any licensed dealer found do be in violation of this chapter.

State bureaucrats appointed by liberal Democrats first get to choose their rules then revoke federal firearms licenses for violating those rules?
 
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How do you FFLs interpret this?



State bureaucrats appointed by liberal Democrats first get to choose their rules then revoke federal firearms licenses for violating those rules?

The state can revoke their business license which would probably put them out of business but I doubt that they could revoke a fed. license that they never issued. This is another example of how totally screwed up this initiative is. It's almost like that set up all night with a case of whiskey dreaming up ways to keep people from transferring firearms without going to jail.
 
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Pat - heads up, my fellow gun enthusiast. They're coming your way.

"But even as they toasted the passage of I-594, supporters were anticipating legal challenges by gun-rights advocates. John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, said his group would help defend I-594 against any challenges.

“I think that the results in Washington tonight for 594 are overwhelming,” Feinblatt said. “We made a major commitment to it, and we will see it through to the end.”

Everytown for Gun Safety is gathering signatures for a similar initiative in Nevada, and future campaigns are being planned for Arizona and Maine, according to Feinblatt."

Agreed, gun owners shouldn't be sitting on their laurels whilst the anti-s are out looking for a crack to slither through.

Pennsylvania cities fire back over law on firearm rules - CBS News
 
Got news for ya: All elections are bought and paid for by special interests. If you want that to change, we need to have Citizens United repealed.
 
Never say never, it just depends on when/if these big money folks focus their efforts on your state.
Just remember what Dr Gruber said, "the voters are stupid". :rolleyes:

Right on.

That's why we're in this mess. Too many gun owners didn't vote or voted for what they thought was a simple background check. We all lose here and gun owners won't be able to figure it out.

I've read that Nevada is next so you guys who live there pay close attention to what happened here. The big money's coming for your 2A rights and there won't be a lot of help from the NRA. It's entirely up to you to get the word out and vote.
 
Right on.

That's why we're in this mess. Too many gun owners didn't vote or voted for what they thought was a simple background check. We all lose here and gun owners won't be able to figure it out.

I've read that Nevada is next so you guys who live there pay close attention to what happened here. The big money's coming for your 2A rights and there won't be a lot of help from the NRA. It's entirely up to you to get the word out and vote.

There is no safety anywhere, be cocky at your own risk. ;)
 
I hope everyone realizes the devil is in the details in these initiatives. If you read the one that just passed here you will see that it is much more than a straight up, simply worded, easy to understand initiative.

So I guess I don't really have any strong convictions about BC's. I did however vote against I-594 because it was poorly written, it's unfunded and unenforceable.

That's why we're in this mess. Too many gun owners didn't vote or voted for what they thought was a simple background check.

This initiative goes way beyond a simple BC. All it really needed to do was state in one simple sentence that everyone who purchased a firearm had to do so through a FFL and pass a NICS check.

NO to all of the above.

Background Check: A tool for government to infringe upon your 2A rights.

There is no "simple" background check worthy of consideration no matter how it is worded, funded, enforceable, detailed or otherwise.
 
NO to all of the above.

Background Check: A tool for government to infringe upon your 2A rights.

There is no "simple" background check worthy of consideration no matter how it is worded, funded, enforceable, detailed or otherwise.

That's a noble proclamation coming from someone that said that WA was a waste of money for any NRA contributions for a defense against I-594. It's either worth defending or it isn't, I'm a little confused by your different positions.
 
That's a noble proclamation coming from someone that said that WA was a waste of money for any NRA contributions for a defense against I-594. It's either worth defending or it isn't, I'm a little confused by your different positions.

My position has been quite consistent.

A. A lost cause (WA polling clearly showed that from the beginning) isn't something I would expect the NRA to blow a great amount of resources on. Limited resources should be spent wisely. Just like I wouldn't expect the NRA to blow $20mil trying to unseat Diane Fienstien when it's a lost cause (and I loathe the anti-gun zealot's positions on gun control). The NRA is pretty savvy about what battles to invest heavily in that is likely to make a difference in outcome.

B. Too many gun owners support background checks.

C. My position on background checks already posted in this thread. Both are quite consistent.

C1. "I object to ALL background checks and the entire FFL system as an offense to the 2A. The notion that some background checks are good but other background checks are bad is ultimately a conflicted losing argument."


C2. "Background Check: A tool for government to infringe upon your 2A rights.

There is no "simple" background check worthy of consideration no matter how it is worded, funded, enforceable, detailed or otherwise."


Hope that helps.
 
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C1. "I object to ALL background checks and the entire FFL system as an offense to the 2A. The notion that some background checks are good but other background checks are bad is ultimately a conflicted losing argument."

Do you personally have a CC permit in TN?
 
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