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10ring

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I saw a bit of meet the press this morning and Senator Schumer from New York was on, beating the gun-ban drum. One comment he made more than once was that as a nation we are facing murders of multiple people by assault rifles on an average of once a month. That kind of misleading statement influences a lot of people. There are many people in America who would be at least somewhat neutral on this but hear this kind of **** and believe it.

Part of our problem at the present time is that there are many, many people who simply don't understand full auto vs. semi and have been led to believe that the so-called assault rifles are responsible for some sort of epidemic of murder.

I keep hearing about bad guys "spraying" bullets, and "rapid fire" pistol magazines, and that an AR-15 is identical to a "military rifle" and so on.

I wish we could try and get some accurate information out to people. In truth, the actual homicide rates, by weapon used, and other true data are on our side and that is a lot more likely to persuade people than the same old 2nd Amendment and self-defense arguments. People have heard those enough that they tune them out. We cannot make our side persuasive by meeting anti-gun hyperbole with pro-gun hyperbole and well-worn slogans.

We need to have non-gun folks understand that semi-auto rifles and shotguns have been used for hunting (for example) for years and except for magazine capacity, there is not much difference between grandpa's Auto 5 or 30-06 BAR and an AR-15. We need them to understand that these wackos will commit their crimes no matter what tools we restrict or ban.

FWIW, the worst killing of young kids at a school in this country was committed many years ago with dynamite. One of the most gun-restrictive counties in the world, England, had its most recent "mass" shooting occur in 2010, long after Britain banned all of the "evil" guns.

The guy in Aurora had 30 homemade grenades in his home. Had he not been able to take a rifle to the theater, would he not have taken his grenades? What would the death toll have been then? Police say he had enough explosives in his apartment to turn an entire floor of the building into an inferno, if not destroy the building.

We need for people to understand these things.
 
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I certainly agree. The problem is the media. They will not report the truth on these issues. They will slant it, like showing a full-auto weapon when reporting on a semi-auto. They also leave important stuff out. There was a shooter at a mall in Clackamas Oregon. It made all the news reports. I'm sure you heard about it, but did you hear an armed citizen drew down on the shooter, held his fire because there were innocents in the area, but the shooter saw him and went into hiding, where he killed himself? Yeah, I never heard that part either. I saw it on a pro-gun site. The media apparently felt that was unimportant. Certainly not as important as who is on Dancing with The Stars. You know, stuff their core audience really cares about.:mad:

We can't rely on the media to tell the truth. We have to do that....any way we can
Jim
 
I agree completely, and would like to make a suggestion for all members of the forum.

Some of us have posted some excellent points, and they deserve to be seen by more than just gun board members. To those posters, please take the time, and make the effort, to clip and save your postings and use them to post in the comments sections of the news sites, and maybe use them as the basis of email/letters to your elected officials. We can turn the tide, but it is not going to happen if we all stand around waiting for someone else to do the work. The stakes are high, and we need to be proactive.
 
While I agree with much of your post I have to say:

I'm sorry but neither the Constitution nor the 2nd Amendment is "old and worn out."

What is old and worn out is gun people using the term assault weapons or equating gun ownership to hunting rifles.

I turn a lot of people by simply stating the 2nd Amendment does not mention hunting rifles. It was established so that an armed populace would be a deterrent to Government Oppression. In order to that, the populace must be comparably armed to the military and a 4 shot bolt action 30-06 "ain't gonna get it done." That's fact, that's reason and Jefferson and others have many quotes backing that line of reasoning up.
 
The medias job is not the TRUTH.

Medias Job is to Sensationalize and thus lead to increased audience, ratings and their employers REVENUES.

Good News sells little, Bad sells better period.
 
If we can educate the people that I call the "Nons", it will do our cause a great service.
I posted this in another thread:

There are thousands of people that do not share the same ideas as us.
I separate people into three distinct groups on any issue, be it gun ownership, hunting, etc.

The three groups are the "Pros", the "Anti's", and the "Nons".
We are in maybe the biggest fight of our lives now. We can make the difference in how people see us.

The Pros are just that, the Pros are all of US. These are our allies and friends. We need to maintain our resolve to stand together.

The Anti's are the other side, and no amount of talking or reasoning is likely to sway them. Most Anti's will never become a Pro.
The way to handle an Anti is to kill them with kindness. Be cordial and polite, and give them nothing to use against us. Don't give them a reason to think "I knew it, I was right about them all along."

I think that the Nons are maybe the most important group we can talk to. These are the fence sitters. They are open to hear a sound, rational argument in favor of, or against, an idea.
The Nons can be shown a valid point or idea, and they will listen to you, and often you can make them realize that "they just never thought of it like that." I have done this, and it works.
We need to be careful with the Nons, though. Act wrong, or come across the wrong way, be rude or vulgar, and we risk turning a Non into an Anti. Then they become one more enemy fighting against us.
You don't need to lead them or try to sway them, just give them a few facts, and tell them "I do this because ______" and let them come to their own conclusion. Let them think for themselves, instead of the way the media instructs their followers to think. People respond well to that.

Joining the NRA or sending in an extra donation is a great step, but we can do more, and it costs little or nothing. We can reach out to the Nons, and show them that the way we are portrayed in the media is simply not true.
I think it is up to each of us to reach out to the Nons.
 
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I saw a bit of meet the press this morning and Senator Schumer from New York was on, beating the gun-ban drum. One comment he made more than once was that as a nation we are facing murders of multiple people by assault rifles on an average of once a month.

Unfortunately Schumer is telling the truth for once.

While the number of random shootings like Colorado, Waco, Newtown and the like are rare, the drive-bys and shoot outs in the "hood" are being done with AK and AR weapons....and more often than once a month. More like once a week just in Dallas.
 
Unfortunately Schumer is telling the truth for once.

While the number of random shootings like Colorado, Waco, Newtown and the like are rare, the drive-bys and shoot outs in the "hood" are being done with AK and AR weapons....and more often than once a month. More like once a week just in Dallas.

And..........so freaking what?

Doctors and cars kill many times more, is he going to ban them too?
 
Unfortunately Schumer is telling the truth for once.

While the number of random shootings like Colorado, Waco, Newtown and the like are rare, the drive-bys and shoot outs in the "hood" are being done with AK and AR weapons....and more often than once a month. More like once a week just in Dallas.

Not true, an assault rifle is fully automatic fire. The bushmaster used in Conneticut is not even an "assault weapon" by the former Federal AWB, sans the magazine which could have benn per-ban.

I encourage everyone to call your state and federal representatives and offer to help educate them. Offer to take them or a legislative aide to a gun shop or range. Show them a 5.56 and a 30-06, all of a sudden the ARs 5.56 does not seem too powerful. Show them a folding stock verses an adjustable stock. Show them the flash from a shot with and without a muzzle brake. Suggest they focus on clearing up the legislation to ban fully automatic weapons, silencers and other stuff that is basically illegal already. Encourge them to focus on illegal handguns which at used in 95+ % of gun crimes. An educated politician will help get us through this with our rights intact and maybe even have a meaningful impact on reducing crime.
 
The really ironic part of all this proposed legislation is the effect it has had on gun sales. Last night I was in the Des Moines, Iowa Bass Pro Shop. Just out of curiosity I asked a sales guy in the gun department if they were still selling black scary rifles. He laughed and said they were completely sold out. Same with magazines for both pistols and rifles over 10 rounds.
Looks like the proposed legislation is responsible for a very profitable Christmas for gun dealers.:D
Jim
 
We will never win this through the media. Right now the Media are like snipers laying in wait for some 2nd ammendment proponent to pop his head up and speak. Who in their right mind would go on one of these "news" shows and subject themselves to the mercy of the editors of the "agenda". Remember the Zimmerman/Martin case where NBC edited out the questions of race from the 911 call? We can't win this by a full frontal assault.

Talk to people, network, educate and like them or not we need to ensure the NRA is funded well. I think Lapierre is a PR disaster as are some of the others out in front BUT the legal apparatus they wield is the primary weapon we have.

If it were my canoe club I would ask that nobody respond to the media for a while out of respect for the families of the senseless acts of a mentally ill individual. After the new congress gets sworn in and several news cycles have elapsed the time will come to have these discussions while the MSM is actively looking towards a celebrity divorce, twitter trends, or something else critically important to the country.
 
I am torn between hunkering down and waiting till some legislation is proposed and going public and arguing for unrestricted ownership. I agree that many folks who don't follow gun ownership much are unaware that the 2nd amendment is supposed to protect our rights to all guns. The US Supreme court has said that the right is an individual right, but to my knowledge has not affirmed that we have the rights to own semi auto "black rifles". The "Well regulated" part is worrisome. The Government has full auto assault rifles and refuses to allow us the same. OH, I was looking at a 1960s era M-16 recently, but decided to not spend $14,500 for it.

I cannot predict what will happen. The House or Representatives in in Republican hands. Many of these folks do not want to vote for more restrictions on guns. If the Senate has a vote, some folks may have to "come out" as anti-gun. This could lead to election losses down the road. If they think what passes the Senate will not pass the House, they may be reluctant to have an anti gun vote on their record. This is right now a very emotional topic. It is very hard to argue calmly with people who are ruled by emotion. They throw at you "if it only saves one child". My reply is "how can doing the wrong thing save anyone, let alone one child?"
 
While I agree with much of your post I have to say:

I'm sorry but neither the Constitution nor the 2nd Amendment is "old and worn out."

So there is no misunderstanding, I did not say and did not mean to imply that the Constitution or 2nd Amendment are worn out. I am a strong supporter of the Constitution in general and of gun rights. My point is that we can run around shouting about the 2nd Amendment and using the same arguments we have used for several years and watch all the new restrictions put into place or we can try to make arguments that might make sense to the people who are unswayed by the 2nd Amendment and "when guns are outlawed..." arguments. Many restrictions are likely anyway, on both state and federal levels, but maybe we can head off some of the ones that would be the most onerous for lawful gun owners.

Things that sound good to those of us on forums like this do not necessarily impress the rest of the country. It's like any other political issue. The ones on our side are on our side and don't need to be persuaded. The ones firmly on the other side will probably never be on our side and it is pointless to talk to them. The ones in the middle are the ones we need to appeal to, and we need some help marketing our point of view to those people.

I assure you that comments I am seeing from some along the lines that if they try to take guns away there will be civil war does not help us persuade people of the wisdom of our arguments.

The other side is doing an excellent job of keeping recent events in the news and keeping the focus on evil guns and an "epidemic" of shootings. And to make matters worse, all of this is bringing more nut jobs out of the woodwork and making the situation even more difficult. We can all sit around making 2nd Amendment speeches to each other, but that won't save the day.

That's just my opinion.
 
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