Weaver Stance

[CCantu357]

I plan on taking my first CC class sometime soon. I have always grown up shooting Weaver with handguns, but many people tell me now that it is outdated, and may even get me killed. I do not understand why, it seems the most accurate to me, especially with 357 or 45. I just hope when I take my CC class, I will not be forced to use other techniques .

 

[breakingbad]

If Weaver works for you then stay with it. I take lots of classes, mostly at Gunsight, Thunder Ranch and Louis Awerbuck, and read a couple of magazines and no one who is any good at shooting or teaching has ever said that it's outdated or can get you killed. If an instructor is telling you that then he is a lousy instructor. At most they say your offhand elbow could take a hit bec it sticks out from your torso a bit so be aware. I shoot a modified Weaver myself - most ppl just don't shoot a pure stance - they modify their stance slightly to accommodate their physical self.

 

[snubbyfan]

The Weaver or modified Weaver stance is great for target shooting. In fact when I feel like punching holes in paper I use it. However, when I took my CCW class, during my 1 hour range test they insisted I use their Springfield .40 and shoot Isosceles. Being a revolver guy used to shooting Weaver, I had a tough time with it. I did pass.
My advice is to practice Isosceles, you just might need it to pass the class.

 

[HayesGreener]

Poppycock. The Weaver stance is just as relevant today as it was 40 years ago. The Weaver was developed when the double action revolver prevailed in policing and was especially useful for managing heavy recoil from magnum calibers. Recoil is not so much a concern with todays semi-auto handguns but still provides great control and recovery. There were other tactical reasons why the Weaver worked so well also. If you can shoot well with the Weaver stance stick with it because hitting your target is what's important.

 

[Hapworth]

"Outdated" is a silly notion for a fighting stance if it is practical in general and works for you specifically. Weaver is both.

The notion that Weaver can "get you killed" likely stems from people (or people parroting the ideas of people) who wear armor and are in combat or law enforcement roles. They often opt or are trained to take a triangle stance so that the strongest part of their armor is squared toward the threat; Weaver can leave the exposed portion of their armor -- the side -- more exposed to return fire.

This isn't a concern for most people, and is arguably of minimal concern for those directly affected.

Weaver won't "get you killed" any more or less than any stance might when you're being shot at, and the people who say it without qualifying it as it relates to armor simply don't know what they're talking about.

 

[BigCityChief]

I've been using the Weaver stance for 32 years - comfortable, practical, proven. I'm not in the habit of "fixing" anything that isn't broken. Enjoy your training.

 

[SAFireman]

Use whatever stance that keeps you stable. If someone is shooting at you, there is a chance that you could be hit regardless of how you are standing.

I would bet that in a panicked state most folks won't find themselves in a textbook stance before the first shots are fired anyhow.

For many years I have taught english riding, and I have watched other instructors try to force their pupils into a certain position that is 'correct looking' instead of comfortable and functional. Do what is right for you, but have a knowledgeable instructor provide feedback in case you are doing something terribly wrong

 

[GLV]

Stances ???

All possible stances, positions, etc, need to be practiced. I have practiced many including prone, supine, kneeling, sitting, and unusual positions.

If standing, Weaver, Isosceles, Modified Weaver, Chapman, all work well. Find what you like, but try all.

 

[RSWMTB]

An icocolese also gives the added adavantage of body mechanics...the recoil is travelling up long bones instead of muscles.



Kinematics.

 

[Bullzaye]

I don't believe I would take a class from an instructor who insisted that I use the stance that he dictates. No 2 people are alike...no one stance will work best for everyone. To suggest otherwise smacks of arrogance, to me. I don't tend to care for arrogant instructors.

Tim

 

[redlevel]

I practice my "shooting over the shoulder while running away" technique a lot . . . .

 

[MaximumLawman]

I wonder if they would have named the stance after the guy who invented it if his name was "Pierczynski"?

 

[GLV]

If you care to look, a stance that looks a lot like the Weaver, can be found in 'Shooting' by J. Henry FitzGerald. Pg. 363.

 

[growr]

Be proficient with ALL of them as you never know when any one of them will be what is needed at the time you need it.

Randy

 

[ASA335]

I've taught for a long time, shot in serious competition for years, have attended many firearms training programs and have been trained in many shooting stances (starting from the old FBI crouch through the modern Isosceles). What I've learned over time is that as long as the shooting stance used is a stable, comfortable position that allows some flexibility in movement and offers reasonable firearm control, it really doesn't matter which one you choose for yourself. Weaver, Isosceles, or modifications thereof, all cover the necessary aspects of a good shooting stance for defensive use.

I found it amusing, while assisting at a Reserve Officer Academy, that the new defensive tactics and firearms instructor insisted that the cadets use the bladed interview position when making contact, thus keeping the holstered firearm further away from the person contacted (and I find this reasonable), but then insisted that they shoot from the Isosceles. I pointed out to him that since the officer would already be in a bladed position wouldn't it make sense to draw and fire from that same bladed position (i.e. Weaver Stance) since this would minimize movement and the need to learn/train two stances? He then tried to lecture me on why the Isosceles was the "proven" better firing stance (it has yet to be "proven" to my satisfaction). Fortunately for me the Chief Instructor interjected saying that maybe the new instructor should note that I was a more experienced and better trained instructor/officer than he was. Oh, and I out shot the new instructor (he using a Glock 17 and his isosceles position, me using a Ruger GP 100 and my modified Weaver) in our recent re-qualification.

Both the Weaver and the Isosceles (and most of the modified versions) are equally effective. Both have some minor advantages and minor limitations. The one that works best for the shooter (the person it should matter to most - not the instructor) is the stance they should concentrate on learning well. Try both. Pick for yourself. I use a modified Weaver - it works for me. I teach several and have the individual student select the best one for their self.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I wonder if they would have named the stance after the guy who invented it if his name was "Pierczynski"?

Yes. They would have called it the Stanislaus Stance.

 

[CCantu357]

Thanks for the tips guys. When I was a young kid, my LEO grandfather made me learn the Weaver before I was even allowed to shoot. With any handgun, or long arm for that matter it comes as natural to me as riding a bike. I have tried them all but when doing a drill I always go back to Weaver. For what its worth he was the type of LEO that kept his vest in the trunk, said it made him to slow on the street.

 

[Kanewpadle]

They both have their advantages and should be practiced.

Like most of the shooters here, I learned the Weaver. First by my father and later the military. For me it is more comfortable and natural. However, for some reason I can't shoot accurately in the Weaver with both eyes open. But I can with isosceles.

With isosceles I can manage recoil better and shoot more accurately and do so faster. For more of a slow aimed shot I use Weaver.

Isosceles is more prevalent in training these days because the mechanics make sense and it's easier to teach.

Again, both as well as one hand and weak hand should be practiced. Years ago I used to take a five gallon bucket with me to the range. Yes I used it to carry stuff but I also used it to train with. I would hold it weak side as if carrying my daughter and practice with one hand strong side. Sometimes I use a plastic grocery bag to simulate walking out of the store. I think you will find that locking your elbow while shooting with one hand is easier.

Side note: A few years back I injured my left shoulder and could not practice at all. I was in so much pain that I could barely move my arm in any direction. I was very thankful that I practiced shooting with one hand.

Which brings up another thought. One hand reloads. But that's for another thread.

 

[crofoot629]

I‘ve been to Thunder Ranch 6 times. 4 Handgun and two Carbine.
And I’m a retired LEO.

I’m still shooting a modified Weaver. Other shooters use more of an Isosceles.

Try shooting an Isosceles from around cover or under a car. Your stance will depend on the circumstances. IF you have a good instructor.

Emory

 

[keith44spl]

I kinda shoot a modifies weaver....Bi-focals don't ya know!


Seriously, whatever platform you choose...Be if a peculiar stance or firearm,
practice, practice and practice some more.

As confidence builds, you'll find other disciplines to master as well.


.

 

[Lt JL]

I certainly hope you don't intend to stand there, in your perfect Weaver or Isosceles, and trade shots like some 18th century duelist!!! Learn to shoot from cover, while moving, kneeling, lieing down, from behind a tree, under a truck: those stances work great when the target isnt shooting back.. Get into some force-on-force simunitions training, where getting hit stings, and then see how you want to shoot. EVERY SHOOTING IS DIFFERENT.

 

[Buttugly072]

IMO Weaver or modified is way to go. I think competition guys like isosolies. Self defense weaver stance or modified weaver keeps the firearm farthest from the threat and out of his hands(on your right hip), allows your weak hand to be extended to fend of attack if needed, better fighting stance, better reaction from the hip, prepares you to fire one handed from any postion until you reach your stance including from the hip or with your left forearm resting on the top of the gun and all the way to firing under your left armpit as if you had to turn away. Also there is a better ability to back away in a fight or flight situation. I could go on and on but especially because it is the stance you stated you already know and are familiar with. Weaver prepares you better for real life situations also try to find somewhere you can practice barracade , kneeling, stomach, or from your back . Try one handed shooting or cycling, and reloading with strong and weak side one handed. If some instructor tries to push isosolies on you find another instructor.
Gl and have fun
dave

 

[venomballistics]

for the heck of it ... and to get some insight into our tacticool zombie hunter blacksheep of the family, I picked up an issue of Zombie Nation magazine.
they seem to espouse this claim that the weaver stance is last place loser but never intelligently explained why it is, nor did they make a real case for isosceles.
When I shot qualification for my CCW, I was not only in the top 3 of the class, I was also the quickest .. I used the weaver stance in achieving that result.
any snake oil peddler who would call it old, outdated, foolish, or apply any other descriptive other than effective, needs to change their bong water.

 

[venomballistics]

I certainly hope you don't intend to stand there, in your perfect Weaver or Isosceles, and trade shots like some 18th century duelist!!! Learn to shoot from cover, while moving, kneeling, lieing down, from behind a tree, under a truck: those stances work great when the target isnt shooting back.. Get into some force-on-force simunitions training, where getting hit stings, and then see how you want to shoot. EVERY SHOOTING IS DIFFERENT.

yeah .. airsoft can be fun
and fairly educational too

 

[MaximumLawman]

Yes. They would have called it the Stanislaus Stance.

Ah, touche!

I shoot isosceles while target shooting and "super modified get-down" when it's time to "shoot for score".

 

[66snub]

In my humble opinion, I would not recommend being stationary during a shooting encounter. If it is at all practical, find a place to target shoot that allows a large, open area. One that will allow you to move to and from cover while shooting, areas where you can go to the prone, where there are barricades to shoot from behind, and shooting while walking down your target. Try the drill of moving from your present location as you are drawing your piece and sighting in your target. Even one wide step to the left or right as you draw and sight in would be sufficient. You can do this drill at home with an unloaded weapon to program muscle memory. Shooting is dynamic and when you stay stationary (in a stance) for too long, you will have a higher likelihood of getting shot.

 

[Mickey D]

I kneel on one knee and grasp my strong wrist with my off hand. That's how Dirty Harry does it.

 

[Duster340]

I practice my "shooting over the shoulder while running away" technique a lot . . . .

LMAO Thanks for the chuckle.....

 

[Old TexMex]

We trained with holstered (airsoft) ,instructor walks up and shoves me down on my can, I have to draw and fire from flat on my back, or on the way down, rolling away. Did it with dryfiring our BUG too. The instructors didn't really seem to care what stance, as long as the hits went where they told us to put them when live firing.we never trained with armor, except to select the type that was least restrictive.
Have to add: neither weaver or isocoles were as hard on my suit jacket and pants as that other realistic stuff.

 

[AZretired]

I grew up an avid reader of Jeff Cooper and others of his generation and learned to shoot Weaver. I have tried Isosceles and don't feel comfortable with it. Too hunched up in the shoulders. So shoot how you feel comfortable.

The Weaver is not outdated and under stress you will do as you train to do. I would ask for my money back if an instructor made me shoot in isosceles for a qualification course.