Weaver Stance

[Lt JL]

I certainly hope you don't intend to stand there, in your perfect Weaver or Isosceles, and trade shots like some 18th century duelist!!! Learn to shoot from cover, while moving, kneeling, lieing down, from behind a tree, under a truck: those stances work great when the target isnt shooting back.. Get into some force-on-force simunitions training, where getting hit stings, and then see how you want to shoot. EVERY SHOOTING IS DIFFERENT.

 

[Buttugly072]

IMO Weaver or modified is way to go. I think competition guys like isosolies. Self defense weaver stance or modified weaver keeps the firearm farthest from the threat and out of his hands(on your right hip), allows your weak hand to be extended to fend of attack if needed, better fighting stance, better reaction from the hip, prepares you to fire one handed from any postion until you reach your stance including from the hip or with your left forearm resting on the top of the gun and all the way to firing under your left armpit as if you had to turn away. Also there is a better ability to back away in a fight or flight situation. I could go on and on but especially because it is the stance you stated you already know and are familiar with. Weaver prepares you better for real life situations also try to find somewhere you can practice barracade , kneeling, stomach, or from your back . Try one handed shooting or cycling, and reloading with strong and weak side one handed. If some instructor tries to push isosolies on you find another instructor.
Gl and have fun
dave

 

[venomballistics]

for the heck of it ... and to get some insight into our tacticool zombie hunter blacksheep of the family, I picked up an issue of Zombie Nation magazine.
they seem to espouse this claim that the weaver stance is last place loser but never intelligently explained why it is, nor did they make a real case for isosceles.
When I shot qualification for my CCW, I was not only in the top 3 of the class, I was also the quickest .. I used the weaver stance in achieving that result.
any snake oil peddler who would call it old, outdated, foolish, or apply any other descriptive other than effective, needs to change their bong water.

 

[venomballistics]

I certainly hope you don't intend to stand there, in your perfect Weaver or Isosceles, and trade shots like some 18th century duelist!!! Learn to shoot from cover, while moving, kneeling, lieing down, from behind a tree, under a truck: those stances work great when the target isnt shooting back.. Get into some force-on-force simunitions training, where getting hit stings, and then see how you want to shoot. EVERY SHOOTING IS DIFFERENT.

yeah .. airsoft can be fun
and fairly educational too

 

[MaximumLawman]

Yes. They would have called it the Stanislaus Stance.

Ah, touche!

I shoot isosceles while target shooting and "super modified get-down" when it's time to "shoot for score".

 

[66snub]

In my humble opinion, I would not recommend being stationary during a shooting encounter. If it is at all practical, find a place to target shoot that allows a large, open area. One that will allow you to move to and from cover while shooting, areas where you can go to the prone, where there are barricades to shoot from behind, and shooting while walking down your target. Try the drill of moving from your present location as you are drawing your piece and sighting in your target. Even one wide step to the left or right as you draw and sight in would be sufficient. You can do this drill at home with an unloaded weapon to program muscle memory. Shooting is dynamic and when you stay stationary (in a stance) for too long, you will have a higher likelihood of getting shot.

 

[Mickey D]

I kneel on one knee and grasp my strong wrist with my off hand. That's how Dirty Harry does it.

 

[Duster340]

I practice my "shooting over the shoulder while running away" technique a lot . . . .

LMAO Thanks for the chuckle.....

 

[Old TexMex]

We trained with holstered (airsoft) ,instructor walks up and shoves me down on my can, I have to draw and fire from flat on my back, or on the way down, rolling away. Did it with dryfiring our BUG too. The instructors didn't really seem to care what stance, as long as the hits went where they told us to put them when live firing.we never trained with armor, except to select the type that was least restrictive.
Have to add: neither weaver or isocoles were as hard on my suit jacket and pants as that other realistic stuff.

 

[AZretired]

I grew up an avid reader of Jeff Cooper and others of his generation and learned to shoot Weaver. I have tried Isosceles and don't feel comfortable with it. Too hunched up in the shoulders. So shoot how you feel comfortable.

The Weaver is not outdated and under stress you will do as you train to do. I would ask for my money back if an instructor made me shoot in isosceles for a qualification course.

 

[shep854]

Not advocating one over the other (like others I find myself blending between the two, depending--often, I even shoot ONE-HANDED or even WEAK-HANDED ), but one instance where the Isoceles can be advantageous is if you have to shoot to your strong side--Mas Ayoob refers to a 'turret' motion; just move your feet and torso to move the gun to cover that side. Weaver can be easier if you have a large chest or relatively short arms.
Bottom line, though--there's no arguing with hits!

 

[Neumann]

The Weaver or isosceles stance or modified Weaver is still appropriate and useful. The isosceles stance is preferred for police wearing soft armor, because the arm hole is vulnerable and more exposed in the Weaver position.

I have no problems with pistol calibers, or even .357 magnum, but a full power .44 magnum revolver with a locked-elbow isosceles stance is like grabbing a 400V line. The recoil goes straight up your arms and neck like electricity. Bending your elbows just a bit takes the sting off.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I grew up learning the Weaver, and it feels natural for me. Last year, I tried to interest my 15 yr. old son into competition shooting. We found a local club that offers Steel Challenge matches about once a month. As he had never fired a handgun, and we were going to fire the course using a .22caliber handgun (Ruger MkII), I spent some time showing him the differnt stances, and then we talked about the pros and cons of each of the stances. Everything was going okay until I talked about modifying your stance. This totally rocked his little world (confused him), and I had to come up with something he could relate to quickly, or I could possibly cause him to lose all interest. I told him there were only 2 conditions that had to be satisfied for any stance: 1) is it safe, and 2) are you getting hits? I then demonstrated the hip-hop method of turning the piece sideways, and holding it at an odd, uncomfortable, and unsafe fashion. He agreed that that was an unacceptable stance as it violated both rules. This started to made sense to him and he is doing well in the sport. By the way, he chose the Weaver stance.

Regards,

Dave

 

[walkin' trails]

I would recommend that you pick up a copy of "Surgical Speed Shooting" by Andy Stanford, but don't change your stance just because you read a book or someone told you that it was bad. Stanford was a competetor who started Weaver, but switched over time to a more isoscleses stance. His explaination is worth reading even if you don't want to switch things up.

I started as a Weaver shooter, then was trained in the Modified Weaver (Chapman) at my first academy. Six years later, I attended a second academy where Isosclese was the preferred stance. I had a hard time switching over, and after graduating went back to shooting Weaver. Later, when I went from 9mm to 40, I found that the isosclese put more bone support behind the heavier recoil and I shot better - or so I thought. Any more I shoot an M&P 45 and I tend to square off to the target. Both of my elbows are slightly bent, and I tend to give the grip a little torque each direction - not sure if thats good or not but works for me.

The reason they say that a Weaver could be "dangerous" is based on how a ballistic vest fits an upper torso. A Weaver stance could potentially expose the area under the arms not covered by kevlar. If you're not wearing a vest, it won't make any difference.

When instructing new shooters, I default to the isoscleses. When training experienced shooters, I don't mess with their stance unless they're doing something horribly wrong enough to effect their shooting.

 

[photoman]

I use the "running while holding the gun with one hand, arm fully extended, not using the sights and pulling the trigger as fast as possible while peeing in my pants" stance.

 

[CCantu357]

Thanks, what an interesting thread this has turned out to be. The different stances do make for good discussion and I like trying and learning them all. That being said, it seems that when the dung hits the ventilator we go back to what know best, in my case Weaver or modified versions of it. Iso just feels to much like a sport stance, cannot tame the recoil as good, and the shoulder position feels all wrong.

 

[photoman]

That being said, it seems that when the dung hits the ventilator we go back to what know best...

My earlier reply was a bit of a joke but there is quite a bit of truth to it (at least for events inside 10 yards). Most people, no matter what their training, will do the very things the "survival" part of their brain wants to do. That is, they will crouch (duck), probably run (or at least start moving), their eyes will focus on the threat (and not the sights) and they will fully extend their arms (probably holding the gun with one hand). The peeing in your pants part is optional.

Unless you have had extensive training otherwise, it is highly likely this is what you will do.

The old Cooper "stand and deliver" upright, Weaver, front sight method tends to make one an easy target for the bad guys in close and dirty encounters.

 

[dyogi]

A lot of this was stated earlier. When I joined the PD in the early 80's we were taught to shoot using the Weaver stance. Steady platform and presented a thinner target. When the Department moved to requiring us to use vests it was discovered that officers Nationwide were being shot between the panels while using the Weaver stance and exposing their sides. The Department then switched over to the squared stance which presented the armored front.

 

[Cavere]

I read this thread right before going to the range today. It got me thinking as a fairly new handgun shooter which would feel more comfortable and natural. This which to train more with initially.

Having an athletic background and if in a combative situation guns present or not I will naturally stagger my stance. Also being cross dominant it limits my movement to be in isosceles while maintaining my left eye on the sights. That being said recoil management is easier than with weaver.

Honestly I am more accurate with weaver and outside of bullseye that is what I find best to use. I am not a LEO so the vest topic does not effect me.

 

[luangtom]

Well, sir, if some instructor in your class tells you that the Weaver is no good, then you have a failed instructor. A good instructor will go over the Weaver and the Isosoceles and any others in the curriculum. A versatile choice is one of the best tools a defensive shooter has. Strong-hand, weak-hand and all that goes with instruction will give a new class-attendee a very well-rounded introductory class. Then, it is up to the student to continue on with more advanced classes.

Good luck in your class and shoot safe.