Weird thing happened to a piece of brass when seating/crimping

[460harry]

So this is a piece of hornady brass after I seated/crimped the bullet. It just collapsed.

Other hornady brass has not done this, just this one, and the starline and S&B hasnt done it at all when seating/crimping.

I guess this just happens to some brass?

 

[rwsmith]

If it happens a lot.....

You might want to consider using an 'M' die that is an expander as well as a flare tool.

 

[oger]

Sure you're not crimping too soon?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

If case mouth flaring was insufficient we should see collapse or tearing at the mouth. If excessive crimping were the culprit I would expect to see some buckling of the brass at or near the mouth.

What I see is a case that has collapsed under pressure near the mid-point of its length, leading me to think this is simply a case that had an undetected flaw that reduced strength in the case walls. Perhaps an uneven area of case thickness. Perhaps a structural weakness caused by the manufacturing processes. Interesting to speculate, but I think the problem is simply a defective cartridge case.

 

[SMSgt]

Any time I've had a case crunch when seating, it was because I was over crimping. Because I don't reload for revolvers anymore, I don't crimp anything other than a light taper crimp.

It looks like a paper-thin case that simply failed. Even the best cartridge company produces a bad case from time to time.

 

[AZ_M&P]

I've had the same thing happen on occasion, and in my case it was insufficient belling of the case mouth. I adjusted the flare die and the problem went away.

 

[Nemo288]

I agree about properly expanding and belling the mouth before inserting the bullet.
I like the M die as well and try to get a .001-2" interference fit.
Another way to avoid some of this problem is to crimp in a separate step using the minimum crimp necessary.

Even the best brass makers produce a dud every million or so pieces.
This is a Starline 44 Special I got in an otherwise perfect lot.

 

[2152hq]

The case may have been a bit too soft (annealed) too far down from the mouth than normally done.
Then when the bullet is seated, the brass below the area that will actually hold the bullet just can't support the force being used to seat the projectile,,and it collapses.

I see it in rifle cases that get annealed but are over done.
They are too soft and too soft too far down into the shoulder area of the case.
Sometimes during seating of a bullet the same thing will occur and the case will collapse with the neck telescoping right down inside the neck.
No strength to the brass walls,,too soft.

It can occur if you are crimping the case before the bullet is seated all the way.
The bullet is crimped and doesn't want to move anymore but the seating stem is trying to drive it deeper and the case is being driven into the crimping edge in the die even more.
The only thing that can give way is crumpling the case below it.
If the rest of the reloads are fine, I'd kind of rule out this as a problem.
Though a one-of case that is way OAL could cause it to happen. But again it would be just that one reload.

 

[reddog81]

It looks like the bullet is crimped before the cannelure and the case gave out before the bullet jacket. Something similar happens if a .357 Mag case accidentally gets into a batch of .38 Special.

 

[Speedo2]

I would suspect the brass rather than the die set-up.

Based upon my own weight analyses of various head stamped range pick-ups, I no longer consider Hornady brass as "Excellent" with regard to manufacturing uniformity. Based on my results from 9mm Lugar brass, StarLine is much more consistent and even S&B is somewhat better than Hornady. This may not be true for 357 Magnum brass, but then again, it may very well be the case all across their spectrum of products. YMMV. -S2

 

[Rocket3]

Seat then crimp. Takes another stage but in my experience works much better. Early days I tried both at the same time but no more. Allows a lot more control of your crimp.

 

[Twoboxer]

I'm a bit concerned something else happened.

In Picture #1, check the scar on the bullet that appears to continue down the case wall. I can't see any evidence it continues into the crushed portion of the case. But it appears again in the lower portion of the case.

Never seen that before, but it looks as if some defect or piece of material were in the lower portion of the seat/crimp die. Enough to make the scar along the entire cartridge and causing increased pressure that at some point in the stroke crushed the case.

Just an observation and a wild guess.

 

[twodog max]

I have encountered some Hornady brass that I think was loaded with the FTX bullets and is shorter than normal. Then when loading it it does not flare the case mouth as would be desired then you get this as a result.
I have been seating and crimping revolver ammo same step for like 50 years and who knows how many thousands of rounds. Crimping as a seperate step IMO is an unnecessary step.

 

[gwpercle]

Seat the bullet in one step ...no crimping , just seating .

Crimp in a second step , no seating , just crimping .

Much easier to get dies adjustment just right with the two step method ... if the bullet is crimped before the final bit of seating occurs then the case will bulge or collapse .
Gary

 

[H Richard]

Did you measure case length before seating? If excessive length could crush the bullet like this. My son once started to seat some .357's without checking the die was set for 38's. Crushed much more than this.

 

[mikld]

For some reason the case is getting pushed down from the mouth downwards and buckleling the case body. Off hand I'd say the crimp is excessive and/or if the seating/crimping is done in one step the crimp is tight on the bullet while it is still moving down. I've been reloading for over 35 years and I still separate all my handgun reloading seating/crimping steps. Even with a single stage press having to unscrew/screw dies in the press I didn't "waste" any time or effort. I had better control of both operations and often chose a crimp different than the seating/crimping die (better "standard" roll crimp, Redding Profile crimp and collet crimp).

 

[buck460XVR]

This is something, because of it's long length, that happens when reloading for the .460, especially if one is seating and crimping in one step. The cases are unsupported when seating and crimping and are prone to buckling/collapsing if your dies are not set up correctly. When a heavy crimp is being used and you are seating and crimping in one step, the bullet is still being seated while the crimp is starting to be applied and if the crimp "bites" into the cannelure like it's supposed to, too early, it's the case that gives. This is something that is even more common when brass is not of equal lenght. .460 brass is one I always trim to length at least once, either when first loaded as virgin brass, or the first time once fired factory ammo brass is reloaded. Then I keep brass of each batch together throughout their reloading life. IME, the Hornady brass is more prone. The solution is to either trim your brass or at least sort by length. The seat and crimp in separate steps. Or, accept that occasionally you will crush/bulge brass.

 

[AZ2VET]

I have a case on my shelf that looks just like that. It is a 357 mag. case that was ran up in the seating die that was still set for 38 spl.

 

[kraynky]

Looks like what has happened to some of my early attempts at loading some 32-20 cartridges. I changed to seating and crimping at two different stages with my 550b and it pretty much fixed the problem. I still have a few ornery cases on occasion, but the 32-20 is a bit "fragile" anyway I've heard. (also Starline brass, but I don't blame Starline).

I also have a row of "failures" of various calibers and issues lined up on my shelf. If I kept them all after 25 years, I would need a drawer to hold them all.

 

[Imissedagain]

Except for 45ACP and 380ACP we trim 38/357/44M/45C/460 brass as necessary on each loading and deburr.
Seating and crimping in two steps solved the "crushed case" issue decades ago.

I use a wee bit of case lube even with carbide dies and keep the dies clean.

Have fun
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