Well, dang it.

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yellowhousejake

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My brother in law brought me his father's PD revolver to check out and I found what I think may be a crack.

Just to be safe I suggested we contact S&W and did so through email. A ticket was opened and I sent in the picture asking if the photo showed a crack or not.

S&W requested the revolver be returned to them and sent me a form for a shipping label. I completed the form and I shipped the revolver to them. They then said it was not covered under the warranty and would be examined and estimated for repair. Five to seven months from now.

I've asked to have the revolver returned twice now. The latest response from S&W was a request for information to have a shipping label sent to me and the revolver shipped to S&W. I responded this morning that they already have the revolver.

They knew the serial before I shipped the revolver, surely they knew it was not covered before I shipped them the revolver. I did not request warranty work, just an examination.

The revolver was barely used and rarely carried before the department switched to semi autos. It is like new. It is a Mod 686-3, square butt, 4", SN BBH92xx.

Is this how S&W service normally works? I have this itch on the back of my neck that says I am not going to see this revolver again.

I still have the question of is this a crack, a blemish, or a casting flaw? S&W seems reluctant to say even after examining the revolver.

Thanks,

DAve

crack.jpg
 
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I'm no expert but it looks like a crack to me. I'd be interested to hear how this works out for you. Welcome to the Forum BTW
 
If it were a crack you should be able to follow it into the frame window. If it just appears on the flat outside surface of the frame it is simply a scratch. It IS NOT a "casting flaw" as there are no cast parts in S&W revolvers. There are MIM parts, but this is not a casting process. Frames are forged.
 
They have their way of handling things some of which will make you nervous. Even though the wait time will be 30 minutes or so I would call customer service on the phone. They're pretty good about things.
 
Looks a lot like a crack to me. With, or without sentimental value, my suggestion is to wait for the estimate. An S&W repair will add more to the value than a repair from anybody else. Selling the gun with a known defect in the frame is a bit less than ethical, unless you admit it up front, which will reduce the value to nearly nothing.

Assuming no sentimental value, with an S&W repair, you might get $400-$450 for the gun.

Of course, when you factor in sentimental value, the decision is more than just a dollar sign. Good luck.
 
Poor choice of words on my part, forging void maybe? It is not a scratch as I cleaned the gun several years ago and it has sat in the case on it's right side. I saw the crack (if it is) because fouling had weeped out from the solvent.

There is minor emotional value, the m19 he carried for years prior has far more of that. The question I am asked by the owner is will the repair be a new 686 for $829. We can't see many -3 frames laying around the factory and I have never heard of extreme discounts for un-repairable guns from any manufacturer.

Thanks, I will keep everyone informed what the response is. If I get another baffling email response I may have to take a few hours off work and just call them.

DAve
 
Do keep us informed. S&W customer service has been off its game since at least summer '13 when by their own claim they underwent a reportedly disastrous in-house computer upgrade.

Not to add to your burden, but if that is a crack, there have been a few incidents reported here on the forum of customers sending revolvers in with concerns similar to yours, only to be told by S&W after inspection that the revolver is damaged beyond repair and must be destroyed.

In some cases, customers report S&W claiming to have destroyed the damaged revolvers before informing the customers of the issue or allowing the customer the option of taking back their own property to do with as they wish.

Instead, S&W is said to have simply destroyed the revolvers on their own initiative and offered a discount on a current one.

Troubling, if true, and I believe illegal.

All to say, you may want to be proactive in contacting S&W again for updates, and making clear what your wishes are if the revolver is indeed compromised.
 
If it is truly a crack in the frame, I do not believe they will attempt a repair to your frame.

My guess is that you will get an offer to purchase a brand new, current 686 at a substantially reduced price. Or, they will return it, but upon your signature acknowledging that it is not safe and has a structural defect. Just a guess.

Since you will never get your money out of it, and you should not sell it without disclosing the flaw, if it turns out to be a crack, you should buy a new revolver.

Were it me, I would opt instead for the new 4 1/4 inch Model 66 .357 Combat Magnum. So, if they make you an offer, you could ask them for equivalent credit/discount against another model, if you don't want one of the new 686s. Whether or not they will allow that is another matter. However, they allowed me to do that once several years ago when a blued Model 13 purchased used and sent back for a refinish was discovered to have a defect in the barrel. I opted for the Model 65 as a replacement, and they allowed it.

Just my thoughts.
 
Well, that would be just dandy. We should call in the morning and talk to a human.

DAve
 
Maybe five years ago, I sent them a 640 no dash which they determined had a bent frame. They refused to send the gun back to me, but as they determined that my gun was under warranty, they offered me a new 640-?. But between the time that they originally received my gun and the time that they destroyed it, they lost it at the factory for several months. This is what they actually told me! (This was several years before their current computer problems.)

Given the fact that they had lost my gun within the factory and that I did not want the current 640-?, they acceded to my (very polite) request for the new 640 Pro. Of course, it took another two years to get my hands on the 640 Pro, as it was "vaporware" for the first years after first appearing at SHOT. By the way, it looks like my replacement gun was hand-picked for me, as it has a great action, lock-up as tight as a Colt, and a "nice" serial number. S&W customer service did right by me!

I would definitely ask for the new model 66, which looks to be a great gun!
 
But it isn't under warranty, sold years after the lifetime warranty started, but built just before. So getting a replacement revolver was never even thought of. I just wanted an expert opinion on the suspected crack and I thought, who better than S&W?

DAve
 
Welcome to the forum!

Others have already covered the topic.

Hang in there, be patient. They'll take care of you.
 
Spoke to Ashley at Sandburr Gun Ranch this morning and her advice was to calm down and get on the phone. She is pretty savy lady, so I called S&W and a fella named Derek was very helpful, understood exactly that I just wanted to know what was going on. He took my number, found my revolver info in the system, and said he would track it down and let me know what my options were.

That was good news.

S&W might want folks to use their online system, but I swear it's like talking to a teenager via text messages.

DAve
 
yellowhousejake said:
Derek from S&W just called and confirmed the frame is cracked. The revolver is not covered under the new warranty, but a S&W shouldn't do that. He is shipping a new 686 to replace it.

How cool is that?

DAve
Click to expand...


Hmmm, I think I just found a crack on my beat Buds police trade-in Model 10...

Lets see.... hammer... vise... ;)
 
yellowhousejake said:
Derek from S&W just called and confirmed the frame is cracked. The revolver is not covered under the new warranty, but a S&W shouldn't do that. He is shipping a new 686 to replace it.

How cool is that?

DAve
Click to expand...


Kudos to S&W. Because of legal liabilities S&W probably would have been reluctant to send your firearm back with a cracked frame. They are not the only ones that do this. Ruger is also well known to not return firearms that they had deemed unsafe to shoot and are not repairable. In a revolver, this generally means frame damage. Over the years this has produced many hard feelings when it was "Grampa's" old gun that never got shot anyway, and the heirs wanted it simply for keepsake. Glad things worked out for you.
 
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