welp, here we go! (recommendations)
- Thread starter Jswiney9
- Start date
Evil Dog
US Veteran
Same here... any caliber that starts with a 4. Mostly because you mentioned bears. I'm kind of partial to wheelguns myself but that would be up to you.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
There are many answers. Ruger big bore single actions, s&w N frames, colt saa`s etc. I have examples of all them. My quick favorite is a 4" .44 special s&w model 24-3. The weight, portability, caliber and adjustable sights are all ideal. I have many other favorites, seldom carry the same gun twice in a row, but thats the first pick.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
In Louisiana you can carry a .22 rimfire while bow hunting during bow season but nothing else. If you are bow hunting during the regular gun seasln you can carry what you want.
This is also a good place to point out that it is ILLEGAL to have in your possession any rifled forearm with you while duck hunting. (you'd be amazed at how far off you can shoot something swimming on the water with a good scoped .22
)feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Let`s walk through my choice, the 4" s&w model 24 - 3 in .44 special.
First the weight. It weighs about the same or even less than my s&w 66-3 or 4" colt python. They are in .357. Also less than my colt saa,s in any caliber.
The .44 special will do 95 % of what we really buy the .44 mag for. Except for a mag in a mountain gun the model 24 is less weight and easier to pack than a heavy barreled model 29.
The 24 has adjustable sights, my colt saa`s doesnt. I have a flat top .44 special ruger single action with micro adjustable sights that is nice, but even that one is noticeably heavier to pack than my colt single actions.
The 44 special is more pleasant to shoot than a .357, more knock down, less sharper kick and less sharp muzzel blast. The .45 colt is about the same as .44 special, yet the .45 colt in colt saa`s, colt STILL hasnt got it right in the size of their chambers. Unbeliveable! I also own a s&w 25-5 4" in .45 colt that is nice, but still feels "clubby" in comparasion to the 24 because of the heavy straight barrel.
I sometimes carry a old m&p 4" 38 special in the boonies as it is light and I aint scuffing up my more exspendsive classic`s and its almost as good as it gets too.
So there it is. The 24-3 4". Now I dont own, but admit that a s&w mountain gun with the pencil barrel should be as good of a choice in any caliber, also stainless would be more practible, but I get along just fine with what I have.
By the way, I like the compact smaller magna style standard service grips on my 24. The oversize targets changes a lot of my argument!
First the weight. It weighs about the same or even less than my s&w 66-3 or 4" colt python. They are in .357. Also less than my colt saa,s in any caliber.
The .44 special will do 95 % of what we really buy the .44 mag for. Except for a mag in a mountain gun the model 24 is less weight and easier to pack than a heavy barreled model 29.
The 24 has adjustable sights, my colt saa`s doesnt. I have a flat top .44 special ruger single action with micro adjustable sights that is nice, but even that one is noticeably heavier to pack than my colt single actions.
The 44 special is more pleasant to shoot than a .357, more knock down, less sharper kick and less sharp muzzel blast. The .45 colt is about the same as .44 special, yet the .45 colt in colt saa`s, colt STILL hasnt got it right in the size of their chambers. Unbeliveable! I also own a s&w 25-5 4" in .45 colt that is nice, but still feels "clubby" in comparasion to the 24 because of the heavy straight barrel.
I sometimes carry a old m&p 4" 38 special in the boonies as it is light and I aint scuffing up my more exspendsive classic`s and its almost as good as it gets too.
So there it is. The 24-3 4". Now I dont own, but admit that a s&w mountain gun with the pencil barrel should be as good of a choice in any caliber, also stainless would be more practible, but I get along just fine with what I have.
By the way, I like the compact smaller magna style standard service grips on my 24. The oversize targets changes a lot of my argument!
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thank you very much! now this is the kind of info im looking for! Im not too familiar with the .44 special but i have a buddy that said he would give me 500 rounds of ammo if I go that route!!! He handloaded them just because he had the bullets/cases, said they are all "shooters" but man that would last me a while!
617X10
Member
How in the world does a weak sister .44 Special have more knockdown power than a .357 Magnum? If I was going that route I'd get a .45 Auto. You can find that caliber in both revolvers and semi-autos. I dislike moon clips and love 1911s. Some swear by the moon-clipped guns but I can't abide with the need for tools to remove empty brass. I also can't abide with the flimsy plastic clips that are supposed to be a solution to that problem. I know that they will break at the most inopportune time. If you don't reload, stay away from .45 Colt or .44 Special. You probably won't find those in your local Wal-Mart or gun shop on a regular basis like you would .38 Special, the Magnums, and any of the semi-auto calibers. And if you do find them you'll notice the price tag is much higher than the more common calibers.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
For over 60 years elmer keiths load of 21 grains of 2400 powder under a 240 grain bullet will push it along at 1,200 feet a secound! Now days I think there may be hotter loads yet! We arent talking factory 760 fps loads built for 100 year old triplelocks here. The .45 colt can be cooked up hotter than or as hot as a .44 mag too. The trick is because the special and the colt cases is so much bigger area wise it does it with far less pressure on the clyinder walls than the .357. Without researching and pulling up a lot of numbers, thats why both are far better stoppers with a heavy bullet than a .357 mag that operates with double the pressure. The 357 mag has a more annoying ear ringing loud muzzel blast, a sharper, stiffer kick. It MIGHT get a little more FPS, but with a far lighter bullet. Besides that, downrange that bullet is loseing it`s velocity faster than the larger, heavier bullets. Class is over. Oh, by the way, that .45 auto can not match the huge heavier slugs that you can load a 45 colt with at more MV. Here again, that shorter case has to operate at higher pressure and you dont have the room for both the heavier, longer bullets and powder and case area of the longer colt. Just eyeball the auto against a 45 colt. I bet there is twice or more area in the case to work with at less pressure.
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617X10
Member
Well darn. Sounds like I need to start looking for one of those Thunder Ranch .44 Specials and a reloading station.
Snapping Twig
Member
Lemme see here, in one corner we have the .44Spl, and in the other we have the venerable .357 magnum.
With the magnum, typically you shoot a 160g bullet at @ 1200fps. with factory offerings. Very impressive, good penetration and hard hitting.
The 44Spl IS a reloading proposition, but that said, for those that do, the standard load-out is a 250g SWC moving @ 900fps. Far easier on follow-up shots, way harder hitting when they get there.
Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and all else is angels dancing on the head of a pin.
Ain't no replacement for displacement.
Consider that the 250g 44Spl at 900fps is identical to the 45Colt BP load, but at a slightly smaller diameter, making for greater BC and SD - and therefore penetration.
When the 45 Colt was designed it was specified to be able to penetrate a horse and kill the bad guy behind it - it did and it does. This, from a non magnum.
Try that with a .357.
With the magnum, typically you shoot a 160g bullet at @ 1200fps. with factory offerings. Very impressive, good penetration and hard hitting.
The 44Spl IS a reloading proposition, but that said, for those that do, the standard load-out is a 250g SWC moving @ 900fps. Far easier on follow-up shots, way harder hitting when they get there.
Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and all else is angels dancing on the head of a pin.
Ain't no replacement for displacement.
Consider that the 250g 44Spl at 900fps is identical to the 45Colt BP load, but at a slightly smaller diameter, making for greater BC and SD - and therefore penetration.
When the 45 Colt was designed it was specified to be able to penetrate a horse and kill the bad guy behind it - it did and it does. This, from a non magnum.
Try that with a .357.
hiredhand
Member
Well, when you posted this you really got these revolver guys going. Anyway here is my 2 cents worth;
1) Whatever you buy it is going to be "used" because of the price limit you set. The gun will most likely be a real "beater". Mechanically sound but homely enough that you never want your friends to see it.
2) To accomplish your requirements for all things, I suggest that you invest in a "Mare's Leg". These really short rifles are being manufactured new, not cut down from an exsisting rifle, so it meets all ATF rules and regulations.
I have yet to see a controllable hand-gun beat a good 30-30 rifle round. Especially if you are walking around in bear country. (If it were me I would pack a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 loaded with Buffalo Bore 505 grain hard flat points. With this combo you can walk anywhere on earth not fearing man or beast.)
So my vote goes to the Mare's Leg to fit your requirements.
1) Whatever you buy it is going to be "used" because of the price limit you set. The gun will most likely be a real "beater". Mechanically sound but homely enough that you never want your friends to see it.
2) To accomplish your requirements for all things, I suggest that you invest in a "Mare's Leg". These really short rifles are being manufactured new, not cut down from an exsisting rifle, so it meets all ATF rules and regulations.
I have yet to see a controllable hand-gun beat a good 30-30 rifle round. Especially if you are walking around in bear country. (If it were me I would pack a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 loaded with Buffalo Bore 505 grain hard flat points. With this combo you can walk anywhere on earth not fearing man or beast.)
So my vote goes to the Mare's Leg to fit your requirements.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
How many ways is there to say, "I love you"? I dont often load a 240 grainer to 1,200 fps, but I have and it will do it! As you said most my loads are in the 900 to 950 fps range. I own 7 .44 specials! 4 smiths, 2 colt saa`s and a new flat top ruger. I admit I have shot them all, but not often.
Once in awhile I lay them out on the bed and roll around on the floor with em. I heft them, change the grips around and compare them. I dont shoot a fraction as much as I did 30-40 years ago, my knowledge is old knowledge. I own a 5" 29-2 for mag loads. It barely gets shot anymore as my specials at 950 fps are hot enough unless I go to alaska. (Aint been there yet).
After 35 years of haveing to pack on my humble job (The gun was really to pacify the federal regulations) and another 5/10 years of just carrying for fun and plinking, to me, weight and bulk counts for 90 % of my conclusions. I worked as many 12 and 16 hour shifts as I did 8. There is a differance between strapping on a handgun for 4 hours a half dozzen times a year and carrying one all the time. I always have weighed 250 to 300 lbs, you wouldnt think 8 ounces or so would make much differance, but it does!
It takes trying a lot of guns, say friends guns, to find out what works best for you. I aint and never was a great shot, yet I have found I shoot a short barrel about as good as a long one. (I aint great, but in 35 years, I never had to try twice requalifying either.) I have fairly large hands, yet I can shoot smaller grips about as good as the oversize targets. I have went the full circle long ago with handguns. Starting out I thought I needed a large heavy revolver, long barrel large target style grips, front sight with a red insert. My first service revolver I bought myself was a colt officers model match. Wore that one in a crossdraw in uniform. Right after that I bought a 4" colt trooper in .357. Really, I belive that trooper was one of my best guns.
Today, I like a 4" service grips, no gawdy red insert with no wo rear sight. I like a closed ejector houseing, but not one that go`s to the end of the barrel like on the 586s and pythons. I have found I no longer need the wide trigger or hammer I once thought I had to have. I still have some of those features on some revolvers, but in reading this all back to myself, I see I am still discribeing my s&w 24-3 4" down to a T!
Once in awhile I lay them out on the bed and roll around on the floor with em. I heft them, change the grips around and compare them. I dont shoot a fraction as much as I did 30-40 years ago, my knowledge is old knowledge. I own a 5" 29-2 for mag loads. It barely gets shot anymore as my specials at 950 fps are hot enough unless I go to alaska. (Aint been there yet).
After 35 years of haveing to pack on my humble job (The gun was really to pacify the federal regulations) and another 5/10 years of just carrying for fun and plinking, to me, weight and bulk counts for 90 % of my conclusions. I worked as many 12 and 16 hour shifts as I did 8. There is a differance between strapping on a handgun for 4 hours a half dozzen times a year and carrying one all the time. I always have weighed 250 to 300 lbs, you wouldnt think 8 ounces or so would make much differance, but it does!
It takes trying a lot of guns, say friends guns, to find out what works best for you. I aint and never was a great shot, yet I have found I shoot a short barrel about as good as a long one. (I aint great, but in 35 years, I never had to try twice requalifying either.) I have fairly large hands, yet I can shoot smaller grips about as good as the oversize targets. I have went the full circle long ago with handguns. Starting out I thought I needed a large heavy revolver, long barrel large target style grips, front sight with a red insert. My first service revolver I bought myself was a colt officers model match. Wore that one in a crossdraw in uniform. Right after that I bought a 4" colt trooper in .357. Really, I belive that trooper was one of my best guns.
Today, I like a 4" service grips, no gawdy red insert with no wo rear sight. I like a closed ejector houseing, but not one that go`s to the end of the barrel like on the 586s and pythons. I have found I no longer need the wide trigger or hammer I once thought I had to have. I still have some of those features on some revolvers, but in reading this all back to myself, I see I am still discribeing my s&w 24-3 4" down to a T!
sir, apparently you didnt read my thread, this will be a gun carried while bow hunting. I dont think I would be able to pack around a 45-70 in the woods carrying my bow, pack, and sitting in my tree stand. think thats considered a rifle as well.
venomballistics
Member
my woods gun has been the slightly overkill 8 3/8" 629 since the late 1900's Shes a little heavy ... till I needed her and well worth the little extra effort when I did.
I'd call it a practical baseline for a decision and I'd only really leave barrel length open for discussion. When little else will, a 44 can.
I'd call it a practical baseline for a decision and I'd only really leave barrel length open for discussion. When little else will, a 44 can.
(flame suit on) looks like im leaning towards a 10mm after researching A LOT (weight, knockdown needed, shootability, funability, throw it out of my treestand and not worry about scratching the **** out of it, PRICE RANGE) thoughts, concerns, DONT DO ITS, 
dcxplant
Member
FWIW:
From Modern Reloading by Richard Lee.
.44 Special 200gr Jacketed Bullet:
@1021 fps, muzzle energy is 463.06 ft/lbs.
.357 Magnum 200gr Jacketed Bullet:
@1204 fps, muzzle energy is 643.93
.44 Magnum 200gr Jacketed Bullet:
@ 1806 fps, muzzle energy is 1448.84 (yikes!, this is higher energy than the hottest listed 240gr jacketed bullet)
Those are the hottest loads for each caliber with a 200gr bullet.
Muzzle energy calculator:
Airhog: Muzzle Energy Calculations
From Modern Reloading by Richard Lee.
.44 Special 200gr Jacketed Bullet:
@1021 fps, muzzle energy is 463.06 ft/lbs.
.357 Magnum 200gr Jacketed Bullet:
@1204 fps, muzzle energy is 643.93
.44 Magnum 200gr Jacketed Bullet:
@ 1806 fps, muzzle energy is 1448.84 (yikes!, this is higher energy than the hottest listed 240gr jacketed bullet)
Those are the hottest loads for each caliber with a 200gr bullet.
Muzzle energy calculator:
Airhog: Muzzle Energy Calculations
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