West German Walther P1

[Redcoat3340]

Forgot the pics.

 

[Andyd]

If you have seen enough surplus P1 it becomes apparent, that few survived with the same parts they had when they left the factory. We shot the guns with the same 9mm Nato ammo that we used in the Uzi. I have a couple of extra slides and a new locking block for my P38 - just in case.

FWIW, the average scores improved when the Bundeswehr went from the P1 to the HK P8A1 but the top shooters were not affected. I still like shooting the P38 and still enjoy it after all the decades. Even in .22 it is a fun gun.

 

[Delta Expatriate]

Have a P1 with the fat slide and hex bolt. When I got it and took it to the range I realized the springs were shot. Ordered some new spings and had them installed. After that it was totally reliable and very accurate. The only thing I don't like about it is the heel magazine release which I found which I found very awkward to use.

I currently have it on consignment at a local indoor range & LGS since I have been trying to thin the herd a bit (or free up some $$$ for something else). It has been on consignment now for around nine months or so and I have lowered the price once. So far as I know, it hasn't yet sold. I realize some of the online sellers have some marked P38 for less that I have mine priced.

I think it is great range gun with a historically interesting design. This thread has me wondering if I need to go get it out of consignment, assuming it has not sold recently.

 

[rockquarry]

One of those guns that a 9mm guy needs.

Yes, especially if you're an advocate of the 9mm cartridge. Hard to see any advantage newer and allegedly more modern pistols have over this design.

 

[desi2358]

I've owned several of the post war P-38/P-1 models and a couple wartime guns as well. I've always liked the "feel" of the gun, they seem to fit my hand and function very well. Just picked up another one last week at a local shop that was traded in. A rebuild, the slide and barrel are from one gun the frame from another. Reinforced frame and fat slide and seems to have new springs installed. Very tight action, 115gr. loads barely clear the slide, 124gr. cycles much better with more positive ejection. Accurate too, easy to keep the 25 yard steel swinger bouncing!

 

[2152hq]

I noticed that the recoil spring guides on my P1 are getting a bit worn at the front end where they engage the cutout in the Frame.
They are some sort of plastic/nylon.
Probably should get a new set so they don't go flying away sometime when I take the slide off.
New springs would be treat for it as well.

For some reason someone cut the D-ring lanyard loop off flush with the frame.
Nice clean job,,didn't scratch the frame at all. The 'stubs are still in the frame and will punch out. Maybe a prior owner had fancy wooden grips on it that didn't include the lanyard loop in it's features.

The replacement loops are available, maybe one of those as well..add to cart.
This pistol is an Interarms import that I bought in the late 80's.

Parts are still available for these P1's. But like everything else in the surplus gun world,,someday that won't be so.

Magazines for the P1/P38 (postwar) are climbing in price too.
$40 to $50 seems to be the average asking price now.

 

[Daimler1989]

Forgot the pics.

I suggest you add this one to your collection

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Well, let's hear it for the P-4.

I understand that the ones made for the US commercial market/for export, were marked "P38/IV" on the slide.

This P4 has no such markings, making it a police trade-in I imagine.

I haven't shot it in a long time but I recollect it being less than accurate.

 

[rockquarry]

Well, let's hear it for the P-4.

I understand that the ones made for the US commercial market/for export, were marked "P38/IV" on the slide.

This P4 has no such markings, making it a police trade-in I imagine.

I haven't shot it in a long time but I recollect it being less than accurate.

I bought a P4 about thirty years ago. It's quite accurate with cast bullets; may be accurate with jacketed bullets as well, but I haven't fired any through it in quite a while.

 

[Redcoat3340]

I suggest you add this one to your collection

That P88 has been on my list for a looong time.

Just checked gunbroken and it's strange how the priceing goes. Some (with a day or three to go) are in the $700 range; others in the $2,000 range. I'd consider the $700...but over $1,000 is kinda out of my price range, especially when WA state has a 10% sales tax on dealer guns from out of state, plus FFL, plus shipping, and now plus an $18 charge from the State Patrol for the background check. If buying from an individual, no tax.

 

[Daimler1989]

Well, let's hear it for the P-4.

I understand that the ones made for the US commercial market/for export, were marked "P38/IV" on the slide.

This P4 has no such markings, making it a police trade-in I imagine.

I haven't shot it in a long time but I recollect it being less than accurate.

you can check the front right side of the frame if there is a erased marking. IIRC the P4 was never adopted by the Bundeswehr and only in very small numbers by several federal state police units. Most of them should have been stored but never issued by the German Ministry of Interior for police purposes. They would have had am stamping BMI on right side of frame just above the foremost part of trigger guard. They were sold to Hämmerli Switzerland in the late 1980s, where the BMI stamping was erased, before the went to the civilian market.

regards
Ulrich

 

[Engine49guy]

The P4 is an interesting variation that never really took off.
To those not familiar with the P4 while they look similar to the P1 with a slightly shorter barrel they have several very different features, this is all from memory as I'm too lazy to dig my P4 out right now lol...
The P4's big upgrade is that it can't be drop fired or fire with a worn firing pin during decock like the P38, the P4 has a system that raises the firing pin into battery as the trigger is pulled, there's also a hole cut below the hammer face that the firing pin rests in, btw those features carried over to the P5.
Another big one is that the safety lever is a spring loaded decocker so it doesn't remain down, no need for it to because of the trigger safety.
The area just ahead of the rear sight is different but can't remember how or why, as a side note the factory short barrel guns with the front sight on the slide front were made from P4's IIRC.

On a side note I've handled a few P88's thru the years but never fealt they were worth the huge premium they commanded compared to the P7M13 in the same range back in the day, well perhaps the Beretta 92 was as well but at much less, also was not crazy about the looks (striking resemblance to the Zastava CZ99).
Just Random thoughts,
Btw last time I handled one they were fetching $1k used when S&W 3rd gens were $350.
My guess is their high price and chunky look led to poor sales and their current rarity in the market, not sure but think clean P88s are about double today.

 

[Daimler1989]

The P4 is an interesting variation that never really took off.
To those not familiar with the P4 while they look similar to the P1 with a slightly shorter barrel they have several very different features, this is all from memory as I'm too lazy to dig my P4 out right now lol...
The P4's big upgrade is that it can't be drop fired or fire with a worn firing pin during decock like the P38, the P4 has a system that raises the firing pin into battery as the trigger is pulled, there's also a hole cut below the hammer face that the firing pin rests in, btw those features carried over to the P5.
Another big one is that the safety lever is a spring loaded decocker so it doesn't remain down, no need for it to because of the trigger safety.
The area just ahead of the rear sight is different but can't remember how or why, as a side note the factory short barrel guns with the front sight on the slide front were made from P4's IIRC.

On a side note I've handled a few P88's thru the years but never fealt they were worth the huge premium they commanded compared to the P7M13 in the same range back in the day, well perhaps the Beretta 92 was as well but at much less, also was not crazy about the looks (striking resemblance to the Zastava CZ99).
Just Random thoughts,
Btw last time I handled one they were fetching $1k used when S&W 3rd gens were $350.
My guess is their high price and chunky look led to poor sales and their current rarity in the market, not sure but think clean P88s are about double today.

that's absolutely right, the P88 was the most expensive 9mm after the already sinfully expensive SIG 210 when it came onto the German market. At the end of the 80s this would cost over 2500 Deutschmarks new in Germany, the P88 was around 1600 Deutschmarks, the rest less than 1000. The Zastava, however, followed the appearance of the P88, which had been haunting German gun magazines long before its market launch and whose ambidexterity was much discussed, so the desing was already known everywhere. Plus the CZ99 took over some features of the then well known SIG-Sauer 220/225.

I believe that Walther ruined its own business with the P88 simply because of its high price. Back then, there were plenty of high-quality 9mm double stacks available for half the price, and that's why Walther didn't get into the German government business with the P88 (except for a few pieces for the legendary GSG 9)

I personally really like the P88 because it has excellent balance, an exceptionally good trigger and is comparatively smooth shooting. Ok, the grip is a bit thick compared to the narrow slide, but that doesn't affect the handling if your hands aren't too small. I've been using it for years to win a championship in a shooting competition for reservists of the German Armed Forces in my federal state in a discipline where only army and police service weapons are permitted. Most of the participants shoot SIG 210 or SIG-Sauer.

regards from Germany
Ulrich

 

[Engine49guy]

Unfortunately only fondled and never fired a P88.
The Sig Saur guns were not on my radar in the 80-90''s era but the P88 definitely looks like if a P99 and P6 had a baby.

On a side note my first trip to CH (Switzerland) was around 1995, stopping in a Swiss gun store I was surprised that Sig handguns that were at about $500 in the US were more like $1000 there without crossing the ocean !
The other thing that shocked me was that citizens could buy full auto weapons without lengthy tax stamps n applications.
My wife had lived there and said "Every man has a machine gun in their closet here"....
I was like...wait....wut?
She was right, the ones we visited all did.

 

[Andyd]

I had a P88 for 30 years before I parted with it a few years ago. The ergonomics did not suit me better than those of the P7M13. I had bought the P88 for $650 pre-owned around 1993, when a used HK P7 was about the same price. While a nice P88 still goes for around $1,200 even a surplus HK PSP is closer to $2,000 and the P7M13 starts around $3,500. During the 1990s there was a batch of the Danish surplus 47/8 imported that sold starting at $800 in different qualities, from original to factory refinished. FWIW, I looked up what the house I had bought in 1992 is worth now. The value increased 400%.

I have a P38 that I still occasionally shoot, several Swiss P210s that I love to shoot for accuracy and the great quality, the three P7s have gathered dust in the safe for a while.