What .38 was my Dad issued in Vietnam?

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I was stationed at Bien Hoa from 31Oct64 to sometime in Feb65. Was TDY from Clark Air Base, Philippines, and was in the Air Police. I carried an AR15, with 3 prong flash hider, semi/full auto/safe, triangular handguard. I don't remember carrying a revolver, but guys who did carried the Model 15.


I carried a Model 15 at Clark, depending on what my guard duty was for the shift, also carried M2 Carbine on Security duty.



Model 15-1 stamped U.S.. Stocks are not issue. Have Factory letter for it too.

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He was awarded the Silver Star during a mortar attack (November 1, 1964) on some B57's (which weren't supposed to be there). He jumped into a battle-damaged fire truck, drove to the flight line, and started fighting the blaze. Ordinance (bombs) and ammo on the B57's were exploding and mortars were raining from the sky. According to the commendation, he was "instrumental in saving valuable aircraft, supplies, and the lives of a large number of personnel." His commander wanted to recommend him for a Purple Heart, because of the burns he sustained. My dad asked his commander to quash that commendation. He thought the Purple Heart should be awarded to someone who was "injured in battle". He didn't think his burns were injuries, compared to what others were going through.
He ended up in the A1E, because he wanted combat experience, and his squadron of F-100's wasn't going to deploy. After he'd been there a while, the F-100's did deploy to Vietnam. He was miffed, as he really wanted a chance at becoming an ace. He flew a bunch of fighters (and even a bomber, the FB-111), but never got a chance at a "dogfight".


I remember that night vividly. I think 5 B57's were destroyed and several more damaged.
 
Dad was a Major while stationed in Vietnam and was allowed to bring his revolver/holster/belt back with him. One of the perks of being an officer it seems. He retired as a full Colonel.
__________________[/QUOTE]

BS! Guns are controlled items.
You cannot just bring one home!
If you lose one, there is hell to pay!
Combat loss? If somebody dummies paperwork and certifies it was lost in Combat, then it's lost and gone.
But if you bring one home, it's got to covered somehow in the records.
Early on, 2 B-52 had a mid-air collision.
SAC wrote off missing guns, parkas, Escape and Evasion Material, etc.
The big joke was , with that much stuff onboard, it's amazing they could even fly!
Swivel Holster? I have mine.
It's not a controlled supply item.
Once issued, it's gone!
 
Thanks to all for the kind words and educated guesses. It would appear that a Model 15 is in my future. How hard is it to find one with USAF stamped on it?

If you find a model 15-1 to -3 with the wider ("Target") hammer spur and trigger, that would be an exact replica of the revolver your dad appears to have carried, minus the property stamp. A nice, stamped example would be in the low four figure range whereas one without the stamp runs about 1/4 to 1/3 of that amount.
 
Some pilots opted for something other than the issue .38 (M15 or Victory Model) I recall reading the excellent book "Into the Mouth of The Cat" by Malcolm McConnell, the story of Lance Sijan, hero of Vietnam and MOH recipient -- that Lance acquired a 6 inch Smith .357 (unknown what frame size) and flew with it.
 
I remember that night vividly. I think 5 B57's were destroyed and several more damaged.

Wow! Amazing that you were there, too.
I remember my mom shrieking in church when the priest prayed a special intention for the brave men at Bien Hoa, who had recently been under a mortar attack and sustained a serious number of casualties. I was 4.
 
Quite a guy. The name tag on his flight suit identifies him as a command pilot and possibly an AF Academy grad.

An impressive rack of medals; the most prominent being the Silver Star.

You must be very proud of your dad.

Command pilot who got a direct commission from the the Guard. They sent him to USAF flight school in 1962, to be a pilot in the Wisconsin ANG. He graduated top of his class, and the Air Force wanted him, but he had no college diploma. He went to 2 different colleges, 95 miles apart, for summer school to finish up his degree.
Yeah I'm proud of him.
 
If you find a model 15-1 to -3 with the wider ("Target") hammer spur and trigger, that would be an exact replica of the revolver your dad appears to have carried, minus the property stamp. A nice, stamped example would be in the low four figure range whereas one without the stamp runs about 1/4 to 1/3 of that amount.

Thanks for the tip!
 
Another possible reason aircrews were issued revolvers instead of autos is to reduce the risk of FOD (foreign object damage). An ejected shell casing can sure cause problems by ending up where it doesn't belong. However, they were issuing Beretta M9's to the flight crews when I was in so maybe they eventually figured a sidearm was much more likely to be used after the aircraft was already disabled.

Great post, sir. Your Dad is no doubt a hero to many.
 
To the OP, by the mid 60's (I was in from 64 -75), the Air Force issued model 15 S&W's to the air crews that I flew with. The rifle in your pic is the original M-16...he has a back to back, taped pair of 20 round mags in the gun's mag well, plus another pair taped to the butt stock. Reversing the mags gave you add'l capacity without going to your web gear. I never saw a 30 round mag while I was in country in 1970 but have heard of them since. And, I never saw a USAF issued 1911 in Vietnam, Guam, Thailand nor the CONUS in the hands of USAF personnel. Not to say it didn't happen with Air Police det's. or in the hands of Air Force PJ's while in combat.

Though I'm sure you know his decorations but for the rest of us...his dad was also awarded the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, the Air Medal with 4 clusters, and in the bottom row, a Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry-twice, their equivalent to the Silver Star. These are combat decorations, not support staff stuff....He was a warrior!

I originally qualified with an M1 Garand on induction at the Air Force Academy in 1964, but re-qual'd with the M16 in the early fall of that year. Flying the Skyraider (A-1E), your dad would have participated in air strikes as well as airborne cover & flak suppression for downed airmen rescue ops...in this latter role he would most probably have had a "Sandy" or "Spad" call sign. By the time I got to the festivities, in Nov '69, the A-1E's in Vietnam had been turned over to the Vietnamese Air Force. Those still in use with USAF markings & pilots were flying rescue ops out of NKP in Thailand...the heroics of those Sandy/Spad pilots is the stuff of legend...they NEVER had to buy a drink anywhere in country. BIG BrASS cojones on them all! You, sir, come from very good stock as my dad would say...may they all rest in peace. "I bear you on eagles wings, and brought you unto myself..." Exodus 19-4 A verse etched in granite at the Air Commando/FAC Memorial Park, Hurlburt Field, FL

Here's my own litany of woes from that period...

I flew the O-1E (L-19 in Army lingo) (that high wing Cessna in the pic below) as a USAF 1st Lt from Oct '69 to Nov 1970 throughout lll & iV Corp, Vietnam, but my home patch was the 5th Special Forces (Green Beret) camp at An Loc, in lll Corp (about 40 miles north of Bien Hoa) and just 10 kilometers from the Cambodian border. During that year, I was issued a S&W model 15 with Magna grips and a CAR15 for the 5.56mm round. My job was that of an airborne Forward Air Controller (FAC); doing visual reconnaissance, while directing air strikes, medivac (dustoff) flights, artillery fire, and Army gunship ops all from a lofty 1500 feet above terrain.

The revolver rode in an AF issued swivel holster as in your pic, on the standard US Army web belt. Issue ammunition was the 130 gr FMJ round nose .38 Special round supplemented with a dozen flare rounds in .38 Special as well. The gun I had, was in really good shape, considering the climate and being banged about while in the cockpit...about NRA Good+, IIRC. A cpl months into my tour, I took possession of another FAC's Browning Hi-Power and carried that in a "Tanker" type of cross holster used by the Army. I liked it for it's 13 round magazines and its great accuracy. After acquiring it, the Model 15 stayed in my duffel and was turned in when i DEROS'd late in November, 1970. Wish I had it now!

The issue, 130 gr FMJ, .38 Special ammunition was notorious for its lack of accuracy and mine was no exception...4-5"+ groups at 25 yds were the best you could hope for...but that Hi-Power would shoot Nato issue 9mm into half that from an improvised rest.

I pretty much ignored, (but carried) a handgun but the carbine accompanied me on every flight along with two bandoleers of AF issued ammunition. The handgun, however, was a 24/7, full time carry proposition, even in the bunker or while asleep...& trips to the shower point, 4-holer, mess bunker, mortar pit...it was on my hip and never out of hand's reach. It was a habit that I never broke...there's still a good handgun within reach 99% of the time. HTH's Rod

BTW, that's me in 'tiger stripes' with the Model 15 on my hip, loading rockets on the bird about May 1970. For those interested in those long ago times, I also carried a Ruana sheath knife that would cut through web gear like hot butter or provide for needy chores if shot down. The 2.75" rockets are white phosphorous for marking purposes and occasionally for strikes, tho flechettes worked better for the latter. Rolling in from the "perch" at 1500 feet, I could hit a barn sized target 100% of the time if the rocket came out of the tubes ok. Out board of the rocket pods, you may be able to pick out the flare shackle point. Without any instrumentation in the cockpit, any night time airborne operations were nearly suicide...no horizon or even cockpit lighting in the bird nor in that country back then...dark was DARK. I flew something over 350 missions during my first tour, was very lucky any number of times, but was hit only twice; no damage to me, but the 'dog' bled a bit...God bless and keep those that didn't come back. Memorial Day is two weeks away, hope you all remember, May 30th is the day, not some 3-day weekend made up by a vote-hungry Congress. YMMv. Rod

Rodfac,
Thank you for the detailed response about which guns were carried. I love the details regarding the actual flying.
I flew an L-19, a few times, when my dad would take us scouting duck marshes, around Lake Perry, KS. He did a stint at Army Command and General Staff College, and joined the post Aero Club, to keep flying.
As an aside, 130 grain FMJ is still inaccurate, compared to 158 SWC. I shot some of each last week.
 
I was an Army Aviator, initially flew the JOV1A Mohawk-the armed model. It was the only Army AC that had ejection seats.
I did some research and found that revolvers were issued to aircrew in most all branches for the following reasons:
1. Hand and arm/shoulder injuries were common in ejections and a weapon that could be brought into action with one hand was an asset.
2. The .38 special could fire the same caliber flares by just firing DA, there was no .45 ACP flares that would operate the 1911.
3. The revolver ammo was lighter and an aviator could carry more of it without adding significantly to the gross load of the AC.
I transitioned to rotary wing in 67 and I can assure you that no helo pilot has a free hand to use a weapon till the landing/crash is finished, as also a "starch wing", the same is true. One flies the airframe till it is no longer flyable.
I also wonder about the belt holsters, either the hook military type or the custom rigs some guys had made; if you have to eject an hip holster can really get in the way. When flying the Mohawk I wore my S&W in the issue shoulder holster and in the helos a 1911 the same way. I did not want a hip holster getting in my way if I had to unass the AC in a hurry. In the HU1 I frequently packed a 1928 Thompson and a few drums, till I figured I would be better off using the weight for extra armor under my feet and seat.
I finally realized that my best bet was to hang an extra emergency radio on my body, and that the concept of shooting it out with the VC or NVA was a pretty slim proposition; although that Thompson and a 100 round drum did save our butts once, probably because the VC thought we had dismounted a door gun and were very well armed. Also the little guys reacted very badly to a solid hit from a .45 ACP.
 
Air Force Tower Controller 70-74, based at Hurlburt Fld. where there's a good chance he trained, we had A1E's and H's training US and VNAF Pilots. I spent a lot of my spare time at SAMTU shooting M16's and S&W M15's, odds are very, very good that's what he was issued in Country. Had a young Lt. from my Hometown come up to visit, he'd asked for A1's as the F4's etc. went first and as he put it, "if you can't fly upside down why fly". With their active role in Nam, lots of Pilots wanted them. Many Army and Marine Ground Troops worshiped those guys as they were one of their best friends in a fight.
 
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I assume that the photo is staged. Did your father actually carry the M16 in the cockpit of his AE1?
 
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