What are the advantages of .357 SIG over .40 S&W?

The 357 Sig was an answer to a question nobody asked. As Chuck Taylor (I believe) said, "I never knew anyone who was ever in a gunfight who wished he had a smaller bullet." The 40 S&W works just fine. The 357 Sig was a marketing effort, designed to piggy-back on the mystique of the 357 Magnum revolver cartridge. There is NOTHING to indicate that the 357 Sig is any more effective than the 40. Yeah, yeah, there will be the "I heard about a guy who..." stories of Herculean "stopping power" of any particular round being discussed, but the bottom line is a fast and accurate shooter will always win the day...regardless of the ammo. Anyone want to face down one of my Navy SEAL friends who are carrying simple 9MM target ammo? Train and practice.
 
I had a SIG P226 in .357 sig it was a sweet gun and very accruate. I always thought of the .357 Sig as a 9mm Magnum.
 
I asked this same question (of myself) a few years ago before a pistol purchase.

In my 40 cal USP, I shoot 135 grain (.40 caliber) bullets @ just over 1300 fps. I couldn't (and don't) understand how the Sig betters (or even equals with the .36 caliber bullet) this performance ballistically ----- I bought another .40.
 
The 357 Sig was an answer to a question nobody asked. As Chuck Taylor (I believe) said, "I never knew anyone who was ever in a gunfight who wished he had a smaller bullet." The 40 S&W works just fine. The 357 Sig was a marketing effort, designed to piggy-back on the mystique of the 357 Magnum revolver cartridge. There is NOTHING to indicate that the 357 Sig is any more effective than the 40. Yeah, yeah, there will be the "I heard about a guy who..." stories of Herculean "stopping power" of any particular round being discussed, but the bottom line is a fast and accurate shooter will always win the day...regardless of the ammo. Anyone want to face down one of my Navy SEAL friends who are carrying simple 9MM target ammo? Train and practice.
Ask one of your SEAL buddies if they would prefer a better stopper. Bet they wouldn't mind. Shot placement trumps anything but I was trained by many folks including a former SEAL and all exposed the following advice and I am paraphrasing, " carry the heaviest caliber you can accurately fire ". Nuff said.
 
When someone offered me a Sig 226 in 357sig, I was hesitant. I went on LEO.com and read the reviews by those who put their lives on the line. Overwhelming statements strongly in favor of the sig357. I then PM Massad Ayoob and asked for his opinion. Again strong endorsement. Never looked back. I made the deal and gotta admit I like it. EZ to reload if you pay attention and use the right bullets and care. Great penetration accurate.

I like it so much, I sold my 40.
 
I have carried a SIG P229 for years and dispatched plenty of Deer and even a Moose with it...I have the .40 cal barrels for both of my personal 229/226 and the 155 grain is also a good round....165 is almost as good and the 180 is a round I would never carry on duty. I have fired thousands of 125 grain Gold Dots through my guns at all kinds of targets, windshields, car bodies and animals.....and never a failure of any kind. A fellow trainer who hunts with his Sig feels the Remington Golden Saber does a slightly better job on the Deer he kills. I have complete confidence that whatever I may face the .357 Sig will do the job and then some
 
357 sig

As previously mentioned in post #20 I have been carrying/shooting/instructing firearms professionally for 40 years....and I try not to get embroiled in "debates" about calibers or cartridges.....Shot placement is king.....and to me, various platforms and loadings are simply "tools in the tool box".....as an instructor I have instructed officer's with the 38spl,357mag,9mm,40 S&W,45 acp,10mm and the 357 sig....some of these posed particular issues & challenges when training officers, but they all serve their purpose and a lot of folks have their own opinions about what they prefer and for what reasons and that is great. They should embrace their choice of platform, loading and develop skill sets and learn to use their "tools" of choice to their optimum level.
 
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But reloading the bottle-necked .357 SIG cartridge is harder than reloading the straight-walled .40 S&W.

Reloading the .357 SIG is no "harder" than reloading any rifle round. The difference between reloading the .357 and a straight-walled case is the SIG requires lubing, which is an annoyance to me when doing any large quantity of reloading. It's actually easier as it only requires two dies, not the typical 3 or 4 that straight-walled cases do.

As for the short neck, the only problem inherrent with it is it can be more prone to "setback" if one decides to rechamber repeatedly.
 
My P226 is chambered for .40 S&W but could shoot .357 SIG by swapping the barrel.

.40 S&W seems perfect in the P226.
What are the advantages of .357 SIG?

The .357 SIG has its supporters, but with all due respect, I will make the opposite case and say that it has no advantages and some disadvantages.

This cartridge is essentially a 9mm (.355, not .357) bullet in a necked down .40 S&W case going at 9mm +P+ velocities. One advantage, therefore, is that it allows a private citizen who does not have access to 9mm +P+ (arguably the best stopper in the 9mm field, although that could even be argued these days - it certainly was true at the time this SIG cartridge was introduced) in an over-the-counter, consumer-available-without-restriction cartridge. The round is also very accurate. That, unfortunately, is the end of the good news.

SIG, which has a relatively narrow line of guns aimed mostly at agency and officer sales, with the attendant commercial hangers-on that always come with LE contracts, wanted a cartridge bearing its name. Essentially, they wanted a "coup" like S&W had achieved with the .40 S&W. The .40 S&W recreated the FBI 10mm Auto ballistics developed after their search for the "ideal" cartridge following the infamous Miami shootout, but in a shorter case. Thus, the .40 S&W achieved the desired ballistics in a case length that could fit into the envelope of a 9mm sized pistol, which was needed because of the increasing numbers of officers with smaller hands.

At the time, following the Miami shootout, however, the term "9mm" had an ineffective connotation, and agencies were leaving that round in droves. On the other hand, the new cartridge which SIG hoped would take over the LE market had to take advantage of existing technology and fit into existing platforms to keep development costs at a minimum, hence the use of the .40 S&W case and the 9mm bullet.

The name selected for the cartridge is a piece of marketing genius, if not a jab at weapons committees and police administrators, who were duped into thinking they were getting real .357 Magnum revolver ballistics in a .40 caliber pistol. Recall that the last revolver round regarded as devastatingly effective (as opposed to merely adequate) used by LE prior to the en masse switch to semi-auto pistols was the .357 Magnum 125 grain JHP at 1,400 to 1,450 fps. The .357 SIG falls short of this goal and instead performs more like a .357 Magnum in a snub or a hotly loaded 38 Special in a 6 inch barrel.

In fact, with a more effective bullet, the .38/44 of 1929/1930 will do the same job as the .357 SIG, albeit with less rounds on tap and in a larger weapon. For that matter, a properly set up 38 Super is also capable of the same ballistics, as is the .356 TSW (there's that S&W name on a cartridge again) and 9 x 23 Winchester. There are perhaps others as well. SIG had to have a cartridge that would fit into a short action like a 9mm length of cycle or envelope, as opposed to a long action like a .45 ACP/38 Super envelope in order to fit a wider variety of hands. Plus, S&W and Winchester had already done the homework on the .40 S&W case.

The fact that the .40 S&W already did the same job ballistically was not the point. Marketing for SIG was the point. That is fine, I suppose, as long as everyone understands it for what it is.

In actual fact, the .357 SIG did not really catch on, and only a handful of agencies actually use the cartridge. It is frightfully expensive, much more so than the 9mm +P+, making consumers turn up their noses. Those who have to have one because it is used by the Texas Rangers, Secret Service, etc., get one, but must also have a Texas sized bank account or oil rig to feed the weapon. Agencies contract for ammo and compared to hobbyists, most officers shoot surprisingly little.

So, in its favor, the SIG cartridge has accuracy and 9mm +P+ ballistics, for those who cannot find 9mm +P+ ammo.

Against it is prohibitively high cost for the consumer (agencies take note as you are spending OUR money). This may not be important as it seems many gun owners seem not to shoot much. Or, a box or two a year is deemed "shooting alot" by these folks. Also against the SIG cartridge is high chamber pressures, which makes it punishing for the pistols which chamber the round. It is so hard on the weapons that when Homeland Security announced winners in its huge weapons contract a few years ago, SIG's own pistol could not stand up to the pounding over the length of the test and was not approved in that caliber. HK, which got approved in all calibers, was the only pistol approved in the .357 SIG cartridge.

If your goal is to just try it out, by all means, have at it. If, on the other hand you believe it will give you something not available in .40 S&W, then pass. What you will get is 9mm +P+ ballistics but at a greatly enhanced cost, less rounds in the magazine than 9mm in the same size magazine and your pistol will sustain a pounding that most cannot take over the long haul.

Compare:

125 grain .357 SIG at 1,350 fps
115 grain 9mm +P+ at 1,300 fps
127 grain 9mm +P+ at 1,250 fps

These are, for all practical purposes, the same and I doubt any criminal hit with any of these could tell the difference. Thus, for less cost for practice ammo and greater magazine capacity including less wear and tear to the weapon, I would choose a 9mm over the .357 SIG. I would still choose a .45 or .40 S&W before either the 9mm or .357 SIG, however.

I have also posted a picture comparing bullet performance which I saw in another thread and which pretty well tells the story of the .357 SIG versus 9mm:
 

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Nice write up.

I will counter that simply put as a reloader, the 357SIG is cheaper to reload and shoot. 9mm bullets tend to be cheaper than 10mm bullets. Particularly the 9mm in 124 and 125 grn JHP's tend to be significantly cheaper than the 40 135 grn JHP's.

So the Sig is cheaper to load and shoot and more accurate in general.

My view is that if I am going to spend money on a 10mm bullet, I tend to toss them from a true 10mm instead of the 10mm Kurtz.
 
I feel the .357 Sig is a better cartridge for Highway Patrol, due to the accuracy at longer ranges, and penetration aspects. And yes, they feed very reliably.

I also believe in the psychological aspect. The .357 Sig is a big boomer, and I honestly feel that causes more of a mental knock-down with a certain percentage of perps. Kind of like a flash-bang grenade stunning someone.
 
Recall that the last revolver round regarded as devastatingly effective (as opposed to merely adequate) used by LE prior to the en masse switch to semi-auto pistols was the .357 Magnum 125 grain JHP at 1,400 to 1,450 fps. The .357 SIG falls short of this goal and instead performs more like a .357 Magnum in a snub or a hotly loaded 38 Special in a 6 inch barrel.

Compare:

125 grain .357 SIG at 1,350 fps
115 grain 9mm +P+ at 1,300 fps
127 grain 9mm +P+ at 1,250 fps

These are, for all practical purposes, the same and I doubt any criminal hit with any of these could tell the difference.

You're saying the 125 gr. .357 Magnum, at 1400-1450 FPS, is vastly superior to the 125 gr. .357 Sig, which you later quote at 1350 FPS, a difference of 50-100 FPS, or roughly 3.75-7.4 percent...however, the 127 gr, 9mm +P+ at 1250 FPS is "for all practical purposes, the same", even though the .357 Sig load is 100 FPS faster, or roughly 8 percent? So...an 8 percent superiority of the .357 Sig over the 9mm +P+ renders them essentially "the same", but the .357 Magnum managing a 3.75-7.4 percent superiority over the .357 Sig is "devastatingly effective", and therefore the .357 Sig "falls short"? I see.

I'm not saying the .357 Sig is the end-all be-all. It ain't. It's yet another compromise, as are all handgun cartridges, in an attempt to balance portability, shoot-ability, accuracy, capacity, and terminal effect. Not many here, I believe, have intended to advance the .357 Sig as vastly superior to the .40 S&W, or necessarily any other cartridge. Most of us who like the .357 Sig happen to like its penetration, and particularly (for me, at least) appreciate its flat trajectory, which makes longer range hits a bit less difficult.

Yes, I acknowledge that those shooters buying their .357 Sig ammo "off-the-shelf" are going to pay a premium over .40 S&W. Part of that extra cost is derived from the lower demand for the .357 Sig, therefore shorter manufacturing "runs", which drives unit cost up. And that higher cost keeps the demand low. Pretty similar story to the 10mm (another favorite of mine). It's a catch-22. So, personally...I'd love to give the .357 Sig (and the 10mm!) a boost to increase popularity, and drive down the cost...which in turn should increase the popularity!

It always seems to boil down to "my bullet is better than your bullet"! Yeah, and my Father can whip your Dad's butt, too!

Tim
 
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.357 SIG, like a lot of high velocity cartridges, loses a lot out of short barrels. Out of a barrel less than 4" you might as well just go with a 9mm+P. It really shines out of longer barrels but hardly anyone takes advantage of that, say with a Glock 35 with a .357 SIG barrel.

I would tend to agree with the previous poster that the round was mostly marketing since there was no expressed need for the cartridge. At least the .40 S&W was for a niche that the FBI created --- although with better bullets these days you're getting the same levels of performance from a 9mm as you would from a .40 S&W JHP bought in 1990. It's funny that so many LE agencies are coming back to the 100+ year old 9mm for the same reasons they went whole hog in the 70s and 80s: more ammo on deck, less recoil, very manageable in a full sized gun.
 
I can't wait to try my .357 SIG barrel out but its soooo hard to find way harder then 9mm but for a round it seems like a pretty good SD round
 

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Based on articles when the 357 SIG was new, it was intended to give .357 Magnum Revolver performance in a semi-auto pistol.
In a few states, DoT and Highway Patrol officers were issued the SIG because of superior car penetration vs. the .40 S&W. The trajectory advantage is questionable at pistol ranges.
Geoff
Who is primarily interested in point personal defense, not police work.
 
A couple of weeks ago, I took my G32, 357 SIG to my cousins homemde range..He is a gun enthusist, works in high level security..His carry pistol is a 40 cal G22..
He had never seen or shot a 357 SIG round..He is a believer now in that round..We tore up some of his steel targets, using 125 fmj at 100 yds, where the 165 fmj 40 cal did not put a dent in the target...
He told me to leave it at home, or shoot paper targets, not his steel ones...He was laughing when he said it...
BTW, I have 2 Glocks in 40 cal, a G22 and a G23 and a KelTec sub 2k that shoots 40...Not a thing wrong with this rd...But I sure do like that 357 Sig...
 
I wonder what kind of performance could be achieved with a 357 SIG carbine?
Are there any LOCKED BREECH 10mm carbines out there in the wild?
Geoff
Who does not like blow back carbines.
 
I just got a Sig P239 in 357 Sig. I love it. This will be a BUG and for when I'm not in uniform.

I hate the snappiness of the .40, especially out of my duty gun, a Glock 22. I hate Glocks too.

I researched the round quite a bit before purchasing the Sig 239. Awesome ballistics all around. Excellent street performance too.

I recently read, though I can't find the article, that one state patrol agency on the east coast has had one shot stops since they've adopted it.
 
For those that might have been looking for them for a while, I just picked up both the 9mm and 357 sig barrels at Midway USA last week. About $70 each. Now to find a 9mm magazine or two. :rolleyes:
 
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