What DA/SA pistol would you recommend?

[k22fan]

Reconsider. Please reconsider. DA/SA is a counterproductive solution in search of a problem, foisted on shooters mostly by ignorant LE and MIL bosses who should have disciplined for incompetence/dereliction, then had a guardianship filed on them since they have demonstrated a lack of ability take care of themselves.

Safety is not improved by this mechanical abomination, and shooting ability is made worse. I had to carry one for a while (2 different models, the 1076 and 4566) and they were pigs looking for lipstick.

I'm not sure whether to give Doug's post a "LIKE" or slap him up the side of the head for changing the topic. It could even be a prosecutable thread hi-jacking.

I'll settle for an observation. For a few years an army firearms instructor attended our matches. We have a rack of approx. 8" dia. steel plates that can be reset with a cord. With either an issue M9 or his personal 1911 .45 from 10-12 yards he could draw on a timer's beep and lay them all down in under two seconds.

 

[S. Hammer]

This

CZ 75 Compact PCR. Fits my hand perfectly. Better trigger than I had on either the H&K P30 or the Beretta 92. Also the 92 was too big in the butt for my taste.

 

[Hack]

HK P2000 V2 (LEM). No external safeties, high capacity, constant trigger pull. Standard issue (in .40 S&W) to CBP Officers.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm not sure whether to give Doug's post a "LIKE" or slap him up the side of the head for changing the topic. It could even be a prosecutable thread hi-jacking.

I'll settle for an observation. For a few years an army firearms instructor attended our matches. We have a rack of approx. 8" dia. steel plates that can be reset with a cord. With either an issue M9 or his personal 1911 .45 from 10-12 yards he could draw on a timer's beep and lay them all down in under two seconds.

I happen to agree with him. DA/SA is the worst thing they ever did to a semi auto pistol. And there are VERY few people that can shoot a DA pistol that well. Especially those new to them.

Now if they ALL had a DA trigger like a good ole S&W revolver things might be different. That's why I like Sig's Enhanced Elite series, PX4, or the FN FNP.

CZ triggers suck and a regular Sig isn't much better if at all and the Beretta is right up there with them.

Can you tell I'm not a DA/SA guy? I tried to like them but just couldn't.

But from the OP's list, I would take PX4 any day.

 

[GKC]

Reconsider. Please reconsider. DA/SA is a counterproductive solution in search of a problem, foisted on shooters mostly by ignorant LE and MIL bosses who should have disciplined for incompetence/dereliction, then had a guardianship filed on them since they have demonstrated a lack of ability take care of themselves.

Safety is not improved by this mechanical abomination, and shooting ability is made worse. I had to carry one for a while (2 different models, the 1076 and 4566) and they were pigs looking for lipstick.

Well...we all have our various opinions. You are entitled to yours.

 

[Doug M.]

You don't have to agree, but I bet you had no problems understanding it.

 

[GKC]

You don't have to agree, but I bet you had no problems understanding it.

On that we can certainly agree...it was clear, unambiguous, and emphatic.

 

[Poodle Soup]

another for the FNX 9. Have around 600 rounds through it with 0 problems. FN also gives you 2 extra mags with it. Which means you get to blaze through ammo very fast!

 

[Tom K]

No, it won't be for concealed carry, so a full size gun is fine. It won't be for target shooting or competition. It's more for home defense and range fun. He might carry it in the car but not on body (he doesn't have a CHL and doesn't plan to get one.) He said the only handgun he has ever fired was a Beretta M9 when he was in the Marines, apparently as part of a training exercise...he wasn't issued one. He wants the same basic style (DA/SA), but doesn't care if it is all metal or a polymer framed gun.

I didn't notice this on the first read-through. Considering that the Beretta is his only handgun experience it is the obvious choice. If he's as dead-set on DA/SA as you make him sound, there's really no reason to change. That said....

Reconsider. Please reconsider. DA/SA is a counterproductive solution in search of a problem, foisted on shooters mostly by ignorant LE and MIL bosses who should have disciplined for incompetence/dereliction, then had a guardianship filed on them since they have demonstrated a lack of ability take care of themselves.

Safety is not improved by this mechanical abomination, and shooting ability is made worse. I had to carry one for a while (2 different models, the 1076 and 4566) and they were pigs looking for lipstick.

Doug M pretty well sums it up. The Walther style of DA/SA that the Beretta uses is pretty ingenious, but excessively complicated. If you only want to shoot casually at the range it's okay, but there are just too many options for its use as a self defense gun.

That's my opinion, and apparently Doug M's and Kanewpadle's. Now here are some facts. We'll compare the operation of the traditional DA/SA of the Beretta, with the operation of a DAO (double-action only) such as a Glock. (I know that the Glock is not a true DAO as racking the slide puts the mainspring at a half-cock position - I call it a 1-1/2 action - but operationally it's virtually the same.)

With the traditional DA/SA, after inserting a magazine and chambering a round here are your choices:

If the safety was off when the round was chambered, you may:

• Leave the gun as it is, hammer cocked and safety off (not advisable unless you're immediately ready to shoot.)
• Or decock the gun with the decocker and leave the safety on.
• Or decock the gun with the decocker and take the safety off.
• Or slowly decock the gun (to avoid noise) by using the decocker, and carefully lowering the hammer with your thumb or pinched between finger and thumb and leave the safety off.
• Or decock the gun by using the decocker and carefully lowering the hammer and put the safety on.
• Or decock the gun by pulling the trigger (not recommended), and carefully lowering the hammer and leave the safety off.
• Or decock the gun by pulling the trigger and carefully lowering the hammer and put the safety on.

If the safety was on when you chambered a round, the hammer will follow the slide and the gun will be on-safe with the hammer down.

• You can then leave it as it is, safety on and hammer down.
• Or disengage the safety and leave the hammer down.
• Or disengage the safety and cock the hammer with your thumb (only if you're immediately ready to shoot).

Then to fire:

• If the hammer is cocked and the safety is off, pull the trigger in single-action mode.
• If the hammer is down and the safety is off, pull the trigger in double-action mode.
• If the hammer is down and the safety is on, disengage the safety and pull the trigger in DA mode.
• If the hammer is down and the safety is on, disengage the safety, cock the hammer manually and pull the trigger in SA mode.

Once you've fired your first shot, you may then do any of the things in the first part above (1-7), and not necessarily the same thing you did before. Or you can shoot again in SA mode.



With the double-action only auto, once you've loaded a round your choices are then:

• Keep your finger off the trigger and don't shoot.
• Or pull the trigger with a long DAO stroke and shoot.

Same choices once you've fired your first shot. Finger off the trigger and don't shoot, or pull the trigger DAO and shoot.


If I've counted correctly, after chambering a round in the traditional DA/SA there are ten possible actions to take to NOT fire, and four TO fire.

With the DAO auto there is only the option to fire, or not to fire.


I know which batch of instructions I'd rather try to remember in a self-defense situation. Just plinking at the range? Whatever.

 

[GKC]

Considering that the Beretta is his only handgun experience it is the obvious choice. If he's as dead-set on DA/SA as you make him sound, there's really no reason to change.

It is his decision and choice...but, I intend to print this out (or at least, let him read through it online) and make him aware of ALL the opinions expressed. I'm also going to strongly encourage him to shoot what we can find to rent (although the choices around here aren't unlimited) before buying...and of course, he can shoot the guns I have. Worst case, if he buys something he isn't happy with, he can sell or trade it...maybe even to me!

 

[Badkarma 1]

Didn't see the omission of SIGs and H&K, but either of those would be my first choice nowadays.
Of the rest, Ruger P95! I have one and its gone past 7,500 rounds with only two problems attributed to ammo (Egyptian ball, lovely stuff @.@!). It's currently waiting on new recoil springs, then it goes back into rotation, and when the CCW permits appear it might even be my carry piece! Dale

 

[GKC]

Didn't see the omission of SIGs and H&K, but either of those would be my first choice nowadays.
Of the rest, Ruger P95! I have one and its gone past 7,500 rounds with only two problems attributed to ammo (Egyptian ball, lovely stuff @.@!). It's currently waiting on new recoil springs, then it goes back into rotation, and when the CCW permits appear it might even be my carry piece! Dale

I had a Ruger P95...and the only reason I don't have it now is that it didn't feel comfortable in my small hands. He has big hands, though, so it may fit him just fine. And at the price they usually sell for, he'll have money left over to buy extra magazines and ammo. It all depends on if he likes the gun, of course.

 

[thomasinaz]

I voted "other" because I was thinking Sig 220 or 226. Then I read the first post and found out these Sigs aren't a choice...... Never mind. (I'd still choose a 226 or 220.)

 

[GKC]

I voted "other" because I was thinking Sig 220 or 226. Then I read the first post and found out these Sigs aren't a choice...... Never mind. (I'd still choose a 226 or 220.)

I've never had a P226, but I have a P229...it's a great gun. I like SIGs in general. I've also had a P220, but I sold it.

 

[Bullzaye]

I voted in the poll based purely on the thread title, before having read the other conditions in your first post.

That having been the case, I voted for the CZ, specifically the CZ75/85, as I own and have extensively fired a pair of each of these (2 of each, 4 total.) In my 21+ years of having owned and fired these pistols, I can't recall one single incident of any of them ever malfunctioning in any way.

Additionally, in terms of my recommending them to an unknown user, without any knowledge of that users physical characteristics (again, before reading your first, or subsequent, posts which clarified this) the CZs came easily to my mind as they offer, IMO, the best shaped grip, which is most likely to be easily held by a wide variety of shooters, while still holding a relatively large capacity magazine within that grip frame.

Another nice feature of the CZ (at least the 75/85 series) is their ability to be carried cocked and locked. Should the owner decide that DA/SA isn't all it's cracked up to be, he can utilize this condition one cocked and locked mode. It's kinda like 2 pistols in one.

A previous posters point about the myriad ways that a DA/SA pistol may be manipulated is somewhat valid. Some would opine that options are a good thing, keeping in mind that the end user should familiarize himself with all of these options, and then select the one that he finds best for him, and thereafter only use that method...which eliminates the potential confusion the poster hinted at.

Lastly, the CZs have always been very affordable. I haven't priced them recently, but the last I looked they were very competitive, and accessories always seemed fairly abundant, and affordable as well.

Now that I have read more about your (or rather, your friend's) needs, I can certainly understand that the Beretta would seem a very good choice, seeing as how you say he has large hands (the Beretta being a large pistol, this is the reason I didn't initially recommend it, without knowing the specific details), and he has some experience with the Beretta.

Tim

 

[4006990]

MR9-DA/SA It's similar to SW99 Specifications

 

[joeintexas]

I voted for the Beretta 92fs. It is the smoothest handgun I have ever fired, never misses a beat no matter what cheap ammo I run through it. I can't complain about any of the Ruger series either, good guns, a bit heavy but good shooters.

 

[M3Stuart]

For those of you with a Beretta 92FS, how often (if ever) do you detail strip the slide and clean out the firing pin channel? One thing I really like about my M&Ps and SDs is that taking out the striker and cleaning out the channel is very easy...no need to knock out pins, etc.

I've never done that with mine. Thousands of rounds through it. Never had any issue - FTE, FTE, etc - precisely ZERO issues. I totally recommend the Beretta 92FS.

That said; a brother of mine has the Ruger SA/DA (P89 is it?), well, he's never, ever even cleaned his in all these years (nuts right?) and brags about that. Totally nuts in my book But it always works...

 

[LTC]

Many here are recommending the 92FS and the CZ. I have experience with the 92 as well as the Cougar.

A plus with the 92 is you can change out the slide and barrel assembly to end up with a .22 or .40S&W or .357SIG as well as 9mm on the same frame. Mine has everything covered except for .357SIG.

The P226 SIG can do the same thing as well.

I have no experience with the other listed options.

LTC

 

[J. W.]

Can you even buy a quality non-polymer auto for $600 or less these days? My recommendation would be to keep dropping change in the piggy bank until you can afford a Sig P229.


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