What did I just buy???

[mce993]

Hi all,

I went to an auction this weekend and picked up two old S&W revolvers. They definitely have been shooters as you can tell from the photos, but I really like them.

I snapped the two attached pictures in a hurry, so I appologize for the poor quality and I hope they actually show up in the post!

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/upclose59/DSCN2169.jpg

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/upclose59/DSCN2168.jpg

I'll call the top revolver #1 and the bottom #2.

#1 is s/n V 643XXX and has a 5" bbl. I'm pretty sure this is what is known as a Victory revolver. Serial numbers on frame, cylinder, and bbl. all match. Faintly stamped on the left side of the top of the frame is, "US PROPERTY GHD". The back of the grip frame is stamped with, "WB-LP-103". The trigger and hammer appear to be stainless with circular machine patterns on both sides. There is a hole on the bottom of the grip frame where I think a lanyard ring was originally. The right side of the bbl is stamped 38 S&W CTG. I paid $150.00 for this revolver.

#2 is s/n 179XXX with a 4" bbl. Serial numbers on frame and cylinder match. The bbl does not appear to have a s/n. The right side of the bbl is stamped 38 S&W SPECIAL CTG. This revolver has some flame cutting under the top strap. Should I be concerned about shooting this gun if I only run light reloads through it? Oh, I paid $125.00 for this one.

I would love to know if any of you have information concerning what the heck I just purchased, how old they are, and what their value might be.

I do plan on getting a letter on both of them, but I'm really curious as to what I have.

Thanks a bunch,

Mark

 

[DCWilson]

The first gun is indeed a Victory model that would have shipped in (I think) 1944. It has been refinished. The original gun would have had a basic matte black finish on it, and this one has been polished and reblued. Probably at that time the side surfaces of the trigger and hammer were jeweled as part of a package designed to spiff up what was a fairly basic revolver; the factory never put that kind of finish on a polished surface.

Are you sure it says .38 S&W CTG, and not .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG? I'm not an expert on Victory models, but I have it in mind that the lend-lease guns (which went to Commonwealth countries) were in .38 S&W (also called .38/200) and the US Victories were in .38 Special. If it really does lack the word "special" on the barrel, check to see if a .38 Special round can be chambered. Some of the Commonwealth Victories were modified after the war to take the longer cartridge.

The grips on that top gun are much older than the gun. They are from the mid- to late 'teens -- WWI era. If you pull them, you might find a serial number written or punched on an inside surface that will number the gun on which they were originally installed.

The second gun is much older. Most collectors call it a Model of 1905/Third change. It would have shipped around 1912. The hard rubber stocks are probably original and would have been a deep black when new. They have faded with age.

You can shoot modern loads in either of these guns; but avoid +P ammo. I shoot low-pressure, low-speed wadcutter target ammo in my old .38s.

The prices you paid are fine, and below what those guns would have brought in places like California.

 

[mce993]

David,

Thanks for the quick reply. The Victory definitely says 38 S&W CTG, and not 38 S&W SPECIAL CTG. I compared the two cylinders and the Victory's is definitely chambered for the shorter round. I guess I'll have to add the 38 S&W to my reloading repertoire. Oh darn! =)

I removed the grips on both guns and unfortunately neither had markings inside that I could see.

Thanks again,

Mark

 

[deadin]

Does the Victory model have a serial number on the bottom of the barrel just ahead of the frame. If so, does it match the one on the butt? Same with the back of the cylinder.

 

[mikepriwer]

I doubt those round-butt grips are original to the gun. Its not the
color -there were some made in that color - but its the way they
don't fit the frame correctly. The frame seems to project below
the bottom of the grip. I think those are replacements.

The round-butt earlier gun is the nicer of the two, because with the
exception of the grips, it appears original - assuming the barrel and
cylinder are serial-numbered to the frame. The victory model has lost
all its collector value, with the refinish and the jeweling of the
hammer and trigger.

Mike Priwer

 

[mce993]

Dean, thanks for the reply.

Yes, the Victory does have matching serial numbers on the barrel, cylinder, and butt. On the barrel I see V 643XXX P. The back of the cylinder is stamped the same. The grip butt is stamped V 643XXX without the P. Also, the crane and frame are both stamped with another number (3939).

It looks to me like this gun is intact as shipped from the factory with the exception of the refinish job, incorrect grips, and missing lanyard ring.

I'd love to find the correct grips and put a lanyard ring back on the thing. Any idea if these are available?

 

[up196]

The round-butt earlier gun is the nicer of the two, because with the
exception of the grips, it appears original - assuming the barrel and
cylinder are serial-numbered to the frame.

The barrel on the round butt 1912 vintage revolver appears to have been replaced, along with the ejector rod. It has the later style "&" between Smith & Wesson on the barrel (compare it to the Victory Model) and the rod is straight, with no cutout on the underside of the barrel for the larger ejector rod head, which on a revolver of this vintage would be the "mushroom shaped" one that preceeded the type on the Victory Model.

I can't tell for sure from the pictures, but it also looks like it has a ramped front sight.

 

[Hondo44]

The barrel on the round butt 1912 vintage revolver appears to have been replaced, along with the ejector rod. It has the later style "&" between Smith & Wesson on the barrel (compare it to the Victory Model) and the rod is straight, with no cutout on the underside of the barrel for the larger ejector rod head, which on a revolver of this vintage would be the "mushroom shaped" one that preceeded the type on the Victory Model.

I can't tell for sure from the pictures, but it also looks like it has a ramped front sight.

I agree. That's why it doesn't have a serial number on it to match the gun.

 

[mce993]

Thanks for all the replys everyone. I figured the 1905 had its bbl replaced when I didn't see the serial number.

I knew these two weren't collectors, and I bought them knowing that. However, I still think it's cool that they are still in shootable condition after all these years and I can't wait to put a few rounds through them.

Regards,

Mark