What do your K-14 clylinders mic at vs. bore ???

[10 Spot Terminator]

My K14-4 has cylinders that mic .357 and am having a hard time getting it to shoot decent groups with lead so today I slugged the bore after making sure it was nice and clean with all lead ( there was some ) removed. I slugged the bore twice and got the same readings both times . Before I tell you what my readings were I would like to hear from other K14 owners what they may have got for readings and if their cylinders are .357 or .358 in diameter on the throats. I have tried several of what are deemed to be pet loads for these beauties with only fair results at best with 25/1 alloy, wheel weight lead and Lyman #2 alloy. My 66 with a 4 inch barrel is currently putting my K14 to shame. I am not ready to give up but as shooting casts are relatively new to me I want to make sure I am not fighting a sizing or lube issues or some other basic principal I have overlooked. Any hands on expierience here would be greatly appreciated .

10 Spot

 

[Fkimble]

What bullets have your tried? bullet type and provider?

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

What bullets have your tried? bullet type and provider?

I have for the most part been dealing with casts from a Lyman #358477 early edition 150 gr. LSWC mould that drops casts at 154 grs. I have cast them in 25/1 alloy ( 8 BHN ) COWW ( 12 BHN ) . I also have tried the Lee 140 gr. LSWTC from COWW, 148 gr. LWC from Lyman #358432 of 20/1 alloy. All have been at .358 diameter. I ran the wadcutters with bullseye from 2.7 to 3.0 grs. with only fair results both seated at the top groove and just over the top with a light roll crimp. The semi-wadcutter Lymans with Unique from 5.2 grs. to 5.5 grs and with W231 from 3.0 grs. to 3.5 grs. and the Lee 140 gr. LSWTC's with Trailboss from 3.0 to 4.0 grs. with only fair results at 4.0 grs. My best load to date were some casts I bought frpm a Lyman #358439 LSWCHP mould cast from 25/1 alloy behing a max +P load of HS6.

 

[fredj338]

A note, unless you are also slugging the cyl throats, it's almost impossible to get good measurements using calipers. You need pin gages or an ID micrometer to accurately measure the throats. Slugging them will also work, soft, well lubricated, over sized slugs. SOme bbls just won't shoot a lead bullet well, happens.
I don't have a K14 but revolvers are revolvers. I find best accuracy & least leading w/ a cyl throat matching the groove dia + 0.001", which would also be bullet dia. You did NOT say what the bore slugged, but you want to be a minimum of 0.001" larger. The throats want to match that. Smaller throats will size the bullet down & then it just has to bump up again. For really low vel loads, try pure lead or 40-1 if your mold isn't filling out.

 

[M29since14]

I have never had great luck with the Lyman 358477 bullet. It shoots "average" in most of my guns, not great in any of them. Lately I have been using a LFN cast from a Lee "Cowboy" mold. I can't recall the number. It has been very accurate in my K38 and in low-end .357 loads too in two guns I have shot them in - a 586 and a 66.

My experience is that K38s can be indifferent shooters with cast wadcutters. I used to buy swaged HB Hornadys when I was shooting a lot of wadcutter loads because that bullet always shot better than any cast wadcutters I tried.

But getting back to your topic, I can't say I have ever measured either exit bores or bore in my K38 that I shoot the most. I guess I have never had enough trouble with it to go to the bother. I'm curious about your bore diameter. Obviously it would be nice if it is .356", in your case, but you might find a different bullet will help. I still have the 477 mold, but it doesn't get much use these days.

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

You guys have given me some thought as to where to go next. My bore slugged .3550 both times I tried it. The cylinder throats all would pass a .357 diameter jacketed bullet with equal resistance having to push the bullet through each of them and would not pass a .358 bullet at all. This verified my readings with my calipers. I will swage down some of my casts for starters and see what transpires . As I will be reducing the diameter I will first opt to use the 8 BHN alloy bullets to help insure decent obturation and see how it goes. I have access to some of Lees version of the gas checked Lyman #358156 as well as some of the Lyman 160 gr. #358291 LRNs' I can try as well. Thanks for your advice fellas.

10 Spot

 

[Nevada Ed]

.355.................thats 9mm diamiter.

Wounder if a 9mm lead at .356 would group in that tight barrel ?

Maybe have a gunsmith lap that barrel and open it up just a
touch............if you want to use the standard size bullets.

Good luck with your quest.

 

[M29since14]

You're in luck - or at least so it seems. Size your bullets for a snug fit in your exit bores (probably .357") and you should have good accuracy and a clean barrel. I wouldn't be a bit worried if the bore of my gun measured .355 all the way down, but do you know if that is the case? No "tight spots?"

 

[jepp2]

You guys have given me some thought as to where to go next. My bore slugged .3550 both times I tried it. The cylinder throats all would pass a .357 diameter jacketed bullet with equal resistance having to push the bullet through each of them and would not pass a .358 bullet at all. This verified my readings with my calipers.

Are you doing all your measurements with calipers (and you were able to read it to the ten thousandths accuracy)? If so, the accuracy is limited. A mic that reads to 0.0001" will accurately measure bullets assuming you have the proficiency, but not 5 land and groove bore slugs. If you want your bore slugs accurately measured send them to Dardascastbullets.

The real test is will the slugs you passed through your bore pass through the cylinder throats? No measurements required with this test.

With the proper bullet and load my M14's are very accurate. Measured with pin gages the throats run .357".

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

All measurements were made with my Mitutoyo digital calipers that measure down to .0001 incriments. The slugs from the bore pass easily through the cylinder throats with no resistance such as was felt with the .357 jacketed bullets when I had to push them through. As for tight spots in the bore I couldnt really say for sure without setting up some sort of a strain gauge but my initial inception having slugged the bore twice is no . After posting this I ran accross the LASC website and read several articles by Glen Fryxell and others that spoke of alloys vs. pressures and also sizing in relation to cylinder throats vs. bore diameters. One thing that hit me was I may have been overdriving one of my softer alloys just a bit as part of the problem. I will however cast a couple of pure lead slugs, drill a relief hole down the center and run them through a .357 sizer and then run them down the bore to attempt to get the best bore slugs possible and send them to Dardas Bullets for measuring. I might try a very slick moly grease I have in the bore prior to running the slugs this time and see if I can feel any tight spots . Thanks for all the input guys. I have some different bullets coming my way as well to try that may help as well. I wont give up. The gun is far too nice for me not to do my part to the best I can.

10 Spot

 

[Titegroups]

Measuring with calipers accurately to thousandths is difficult, there is a difference between resolution and accuracy. Calipers are not mics.

 

[M29since14]

I don't think you can go wrong with any reasonable bullet alloy at .38 Special target velocities. Pure lead would probably be OK.

From what you say, your gun appears to be set-up nicely to shoot bullets sized to .357". Unless you are getting a lot of leading, I would not dwell any more on bullet/bore/exit bore dimensions. Just concentrate on finding a load you like. Try the Hornady HB wadcutters and see what you think.

Wouldn't hurt to buy a box or two of Remington factory wadcutters and use them as control loads. If your gun will not shoot up to snuff with those, either you are doing something wrong or you may have one of those odd guns that has a problem you may never pin down.

In over 40-years of shooting S&Ws I have seen exactly one gun (a 6-inch Model 66) that just would not shoot. In spite of careful inspection of everything we could think of to check, that gun was a terrible shooter and we never knew why. With some ammunition it would not even keep all six rounds on a 14x14 target at 50-feet. S&W rebuilt the gun (new barrel, cylinder, and various other parts) without any comment as to why it did not shoot.

 

[mtgianni]

I am in a motel on the road for a while, K-38 is at home, but my accuracy load for MY K-38 is the 358477 and 5.4 gr Unique. It is now an over the book max load but was recommended in LY handbooks for years. i am still shooting Unique from the late 80's early 90's. 5.0 gr works almost as well.

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

Just a note as to what has worked for me since the original post by me so long ago. The initial accuracy cure for me involved a couple of things. First was a great benefit by changing lubes and understanding that shooting bullets coated with different lubes one behind the other in successive load tests was not a good thing unless you cleaned the bore thoroughly and fired what might be deemed as several fouling or bore prep rounds with the newest lube being used. Secondly as for the bullet vs. cylinder throat vs. bore diameters the larger than cylinder .358 diameter bullets cast from harder alloys of 12 BHN or higher worked best in comparison tests and so far all driven at max load to low end +P velocities have given some great results. As for loads in a milder range I have found 2 bullets in the 140 gr. LSWC persuasion driven by 4.8 grs. of Trailboss to be quite nice indeed. Using targets that were more user friendly for proofing pistol loads was a plus. All said and done with all the midnight oil spent by me as to what is to be considered the basic rules and how they are to be applied to cast bullet shooting I have learned this to be true ,,, It's just a place to start. For me bending or breaking (some) of the rules proved to work best . Keeping an open mind and not giving up has paid off wonderfully . Thanks for all the input you fellas have given me and I wish you the best both on and off the range.

10 Spot

 

[M29since14]

Thanks for the report, but from your writing I am not sure what actually (specifically) worked best for you.

 

[john wall]

I have shot 14's since my youth. Swaged HBWC's will generally show you what the gun can do. I now have two full lugged 14's. The aforementioned bullet is monumentally more accurate than others.

Slugged bullets will go through the cylinder throats with little or no pressure.

Load to slightly over 700 fps in your gun, assuming it has a 6" barrel.