What does "mint" actually mean?

lihpster

lihpster

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One of the members here recently purchased a gun from an auction. A nickel 29-2 that was advertised as "unfired!!". When he got it there were burn rings present. When he talked to them about it, they said that they only meant it was "mint". Well, I always thought that mint was as it came from the factory. Untouched. Mint. Once you fire it, it's no longer mint. Thus all mint guns are unfired but not all unfired guns are mint. By the way, this was not the factory test firing. This gun was shot. Maybe just a cylinder full, but it was shot. What do you guys think mint means?
 
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I tend to agree with you. Mint means perfect in every way to me.
I do not see how a gun that has been fired is mint.
But as with most things, everyone sees condition differently and to them mint just might mean really nice condition.
If I was in the market and liked it I wouldn't care what they called it as long as the price was right.😎
 
SS336 said:
I tend to agree with you. Mint means perfect in every way to me.
I do not see how a gun that has been fired is mint.
But as with most things, everyone sees condition differently and to them mint just might mean really nice condition.
If I was in the market and liked it I wouldn't care what they called it as long as the price was right.😎
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True. But the thing is, this is kind of a grail gun for him and he wanted an unfired, mint example. I've never bought a gun from an auction. I guess the lesson here is ask specific questions before you buy. Like if they're using the same English we are.
 
DWalt said:
Probably no such thing as an unfired gun. I believe most, if not all, guns are test-fired at least a few rounds at the factory prior to shipment.
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Let's say unfired since the factory. Still not true. They admitted as much. It's when they were asked about it they said it meant it was mint. Fired after the factory is not mint. Even an unfired gun is not mint if it has finish blemishes or an action job or even different grips. Mint is as it came from the factory. And as to price, he based his price on a mint gun. Not mint, them he'd want it for less.
 
Well, "mint" isn't a well-defined collector term. And for what it's worth, as much as I love S&W, I've seen more box fresh, dead-NEW guns shipped from S&W with visible flaws than I can or wish to remember. Flaws from tiny to noteworthy, all items that we would argue are less than MINT, but were never put on the gun from a buyer or dealer or wholesaler… flaw that happened at Springfield, Mass.

Many (some might argue MOST) 6-shot revolvers that S&W shipped over the last buncha decades was fired twice before it was even boxed and I have had a few examples where the evidence of that was seen, and in some cases seen easily.

At the same time, S&W may fire more than two shots, especially in older examples.

I believe that if the BUYER thinks an awful lot is at stake with a purchase he is making without the revolver in hand, it's up to the BUYER to be extremely clear what we he thinks he is getting, he needs to ask very specific questions and ask for very specific pictures.

Buying guns over the internet, without the gun in hand requires a certain kind of communication and risk, and it isn't for everyone. If the buyer you're talking about is not happy, he should return his purchase. And THAT option and all terms should have been well known before he bought it, and if not, that is on him.
 
"Mint" as in an uncirculated coin, and straight from the mint.

Came from the coin world from what I've been led to believe.

When someone tells me whatever they are selling is 'MINT", and it's not a coin...I immediately think carpetbagger..especially if it's a car.

I never ever never use the term unless I'd like some mint jelly with my lamb chops... :)
 
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I guess I'll be the odd man out here. 'Mint' means it is in perfect 10/10 condition in function and appearance. So, you could have a firearm that has been fired but is in otherwise 'mint condition'. Conversely, you could have a firearm that is unfired (except from the factory test), but have a scratch, or blemish of some sort, thus it would not be considered to be in 'mint condition'. That's just the way I see it....
 
Having had quite a bit of experience in the coin collecting world, coins are struck or minted but the best a gun can be is "factory new". You can say cast, forged, or molded but not minted. :)

That said, there is a difference between "unfired" (which the gun in question was not) and the highly subjective grading of "mint". To me that would mean a gun looks exactly as it was packed, shipped by the factory and received by the dealer.

With burn rings on the cylinder it is almost certain it also has visible handling marks as well, so "nearly new" would be as good as it could get.
 
I don't know if there is a proper definition, so all I can offer is a collector's opinion.

Mint to me means it has 100% bluing, no scratches or scuffs and looks just like it came from the factory. It may have been fired but not much and the turn line is hardly visible.

NIB, unfired means just that. It's not only mint, but it has never been fired except by the factory.

I'll add another classification if I may....NIB, Never Fired, Untouched. In other words, it was never cocked, the trigger was never pulled, and its in ALL of its original packaging.
 
When you get into coin grading, the slightest ding or scratch moves it out of the uppermost Mint category. The highest grade coin is MS (Mint State)-70 which means essentially perfection at the microscopic level. No normal production line coin will ever reach that level, only those specially-made coins oriented toward collectors.

Correctly, "Mint" as a gun grading level is inappropriate, as is is principally a coin standard. Guns are not made in Mints. However, if someone does use "Mint" as a gun condition, it should be applied only to those guns which have not been handled or fired outside the factory, and do not exhibit any traces of corrosion or other finish blemishes.
 
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another local NJ favorite...what condition... your kidding me un.......
believable.....mint
 
I agree that "mint" is borrowed from the world of coin collecting and is undefined when applied to guns. You might as well say the condition is "amazing" or "awesome" or some other overused superlative.

It's like hearing a classic car is "cherry". Sounds wonderful, but where is the term defined?
 
ladder13 said:
Minty is even worse :)
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Minty fresh is a term used by breath mint manufacturers. :rolleyes:

As previously stated, "mint" is a term properly used for coins.
Guns aren't minted, they're manufactured. Guns should be described by their physical condition.

"Unfired" tells you nothing. I've seen guns that were unfired (outside of the factory) and were trashed by poor storage or excessive handling. Just because they show firing doesn't mean that they're not in superb condition.

Don't get hung up on verbiage or descriptions. Examine guns closely and let your eyes decide. If an online seller doesn't provide enough photos to make your own decision, ask for more. If he doesn't provide them to your satisfaction, pass.
 
Gun Auction sites should be limited to rating a firearm for sale to a 'Drop Down' list of categories, with the top condition being 'New In Box' (NIB) (Fresh from the factory/unsold/unhandled, with only factory test fire rounds through it).

Anything other than that, like 'Like New In Box' (LNIB) or other categories should require more in depth description of HOW they feel it's 'Like New'.
 
If I am buying, mint is whatever I say it is. If it doesn't meet my standards, I don't buy, no matter how the seller is describing it. You? Decide for yourself.
 
The buyer of on-line guns should look over the pictures carefully and ask for more if not satisfied. It's a gamble buying online guns, but I have bought a couple nice ones that way. Just beware of sellers who do not specify an inspection and return period if the weapon has been misrepresented. I never had to return one before, but I ask a lot of questions before I make a decision to buy.
 
In the world of comic books, stamps, baseball cards, and a few other collectibles, there are professional grading organizations which, for a (sometimes substantial) fee, will do an assessment of an item to determine its numerical condition according to widely accepted and very precise grading standards, for example, if a baseball card is printed slightly off center or there is slight damage to one corner of the card, its condition rating will be quantitatively decreased. So far as I know, there are no professional gun grading organizations which perform a similar function for firearms. Maybe there is a market for one.
 
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According to the NRA "Mint" is not a firearms grading term.

NRA Conditions Grading Standards | armsbid.com

NRA Modern Gun Condition Standards

NEW: Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.

PERFECT: In New condition in every respect. (Many collectors & dealers use "As New" to describe this condition).

EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).

VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.

GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

FAIR: In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.
 
Eric300 said:
I guess I'll be the odd man out here. 'Mint' means it is in perfect 10/10 condition in function and appearance. So, you could have a firearm that has been fired but is in otherwise 'mint condition'. Conversely, you could have a firearm that is unfired (except from the factory test), but have a scratch, or blemish of some sort, thus it would not be considered to be in 'mint condition'. That's just the way I see it....
Click to expand...

Outside of the gun world that's what it meant for a long time. There can be an unfired gun that was not finished very good from the factory that I wouldn't call a mint example of that model.
 
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lihpster,
Not meaning any disrespect to your friend

What any description of the item means to the buyer is total irrelevant.

All that matters is what those terms mean to the seller, you know the guy that used the word to describe the product.

As the buyer, I always send a message to the seller saying something like . . . . You called the item ???? are you telling me that this item has never been fired since leaving the factory and the finish is without blemish, it belonged to the King? Or whatever information is being conveyed

That lets the seller refine their description

To ME, there is no such thing as NIB if it is being sold 2nd hand. NEW only occurs once and only from the retailer to the original buyer

An item that is EXACTLY like a New item from the retailer but 2nd hand is LNIB

I am real picky about those two. Yet we all have seen the add . . . LNIB Model 27 only fired 100 rounds of 38 Special. . . . To me that could not possibly be better than Excellent + condition. After all it has been fired since leaving the factory

Likewise something that is NIB from the dealer is not necessarily cosmetically perfect. It is simply the first sale at retail. A description of cosmetic condition must also be included

Mint, to me Mint is what you have after your meal, it is not a description of s firearm's condition and I would ask for clarification of what the seller meant by Mint

The one absolute fact about buying 2nd hand firearms is that seldom will the buyer and seller describe the item in the same fashion

If you have made a purchase and are displeased with the item as described by the seller, then you need to not fill out the 4473 and should be returning the item to the seller.

If you have signed the 4473, then you have accepted the item and it's description

If this story is about an auction house or online auction member and their descriptions, then that Auction House' or Member's Name NEEDS to be made public so that the rest of your Forum Brothers and Sisters can interact with them appropriately as we all move forward.

If you are purchasing a GRAIL Gun without having it in your hand, the terms of the deal MUST include what happens if the firearm arrives and it is not in the described condition.

Buyers are going to be much more picky about inspecting their newly acquired Grail Gun than they will be about the Glock they just bought to keep in the glove box/tool box/tackle box
 
In order to assess condition, the rating factors must be standardized, uniform, precise, and unambiguous. I don't think gun condition rating has reached that point, and may never.

Remember the older gun price guides which used to have color pictures of guns in various conditions in the front illustrating how they should be rated. That never helped me very much.
 
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