What does "RE" in a circle on the grip frame and other questions

[oldblue]

There is no "apparently" here, the box IS NOT original to the gun. If you look closely under the "N" there at one time was an "S" which would make sense. The box actually dates earlier than the gun which was most likely made in the late 60's or early 70's. Since the box is pre Bangor Punta (who purchased S&W from the family in 1965) the box is pre 1965 which also makes sense for an "S" serial number.

Your Gun Broker non boxed examples show that the guns alone have sold in the $1700 range so your $1600 is not out of line.

A boxed gun should typically add a couple of hundred to the package but many folks nowadays don't seem to care about the old cardboard and don't appreciate the "holy grail" of gun collecting which is finding an original complete package as it shipped from the factory. Today you can buy fake end labels and photocopied parts lists and many so called collectors are happy to put together packages. It is just not the same as finding the complete package in original condition but many collectors today just are not purists and don't seem to care. There are even reproduced screwdrivers or SAT's that one can add to the package.

I would advise the seller that he sold the gun as coming with an original box (which it is) but just not original to this gun. See if he is willing to knock off $100 since the package was misrepresented and perhaps you can get the gun for $1,500. If he says no then you have to decide if the gun alone is worth it.

Well that is a very well thought-out set of statements and it sounds informed by lots of experience. I think I'll just ask for a full refund and see how he reacts. Hopefully reasonably - perhaps he has a helper in the shop that is less experienced. We'll see.
As you suggest, while settling for a partial refund may make economic sense, it nevertheless may not give us the feeling that we seek when we open the safe and see that truly original set lying before us, taking us back to a time of American craftsmanship, know-how and pursuit of excellence. Guns like make good company 'round the campfire for the 1930's cast iron cookware and a Case XX 10-dot pocket knife. I'll have to give your well-considered comment some thought as I await a reply from the dealer.

 

[oldblue]

Who's the seller?

Available by clicking on the GB link in an earlier post.

 

[oldblue]

Have you ever owned a S&W revolver before?

Several but I'm having a hard time imagining how that's relevant or helpful. Enlighten me.

 

[Skwirl]

I'm in the camp of returning it.

My problem is the fraudulent labeling of the box.
Then the fraudulent add, listing the box as original to this gun.
Then the misrepresentation of the gun itself. If you found the ejector rod being eccentric, the seller also knew of it.

Yeah, I'd definitely be returning that gun, and try to inform gunbroker also.

 

[moralem]

If you can return it, do it and then keep on looking and putting more money aside until you find a better example.

 

[cmansguns]

Welcome to the Forum....hang around and we will help you spend your money...but we do need pictures, they are obligatory when questioning value of anything S & W.

My 27-2 with 3-1/2" bbl is the real deal and you won't get it from me for $1,600. Mine is 1976, s/n N 377xxx. No box, no docs, no presentation case, tools, etc.

Actually no story whatsoever on mine which is fine with me as I really don't want to hear the usual stuff about how a friend of a friend got this gun given to him after Elvis used it to demolish a TV one night, but sorry...lost the photo of the King doing the deed.

There is a seller on Fleabay (starts with a Blo...) who sells boxes and blank labels for Colts, S & W and just about anything you want. He's still in business so somebody sucks into this stuff all day long. Also as posted there are other sellers putting out repro's of manuals, parts lists, etc. but these items are 100% worthless in my opinion as a collector (well junior advancing accumulator in training).

Don't know what the circle RE stands for, maybe Reengineered and applied by the seller

Like others I'd say for sure discuss at length with the seller.

I guess decide how nice a shooter it is and negotiate accordingly. If you feel the gun alone is worth whatever (and they ARE sweet shooters, a major tad heavy for Concealed Carry)...then dicker with the dude, but trash the box...it ain't worth squat, even if someone could read the old serial number and had a matching gun...it has still been FAKED, no honest "mistake" in my opinion.

 

[murphydog]

It's a nice looking example from the auction listing photos but maybe 95 - 97%, with muzzle wear and various spots of finish loss. The sideplate screw under the right stock panel will often have a flat head to clear the wood but a photo would help determine if is original.

Unless you have developed an emotional attachment to it (not that this has happened to any of us here ), I would be inclined to return it as well and look for a nicer example at lower cost. Good luck in your decision.

 

[Nightowl]

You might also want to consider the shipping cost to send back, in my neck of the woods, around $75 or so. That's what it cost me to send a Python back to Colt several years ago!

If you can negotiate the box fakery, and save the shipping cost, you are not in bad shape.

But, if you cannot enjoy the gun as is, then it will probably be better to sent it back, if he will take it back. One thing, though, you never know how good a gun will shoot until you shoot it!

 

[jack the toad]

Unless you have developed an emotional attachment to it (not that this has happened to any of us here ), I would be inclined to return it as well and look for a nicer example at lower cost. Good luck in your decision.

+1
For comparison (which may or may not be wise), my latest purchase (last month) was for a similar model. A 3.5", 5-digit N prefix, blued, no target options, ca. 1972. Came with correctly labeled box, tools and all docs except manual. Shows to be very low round count with minimal finish wear, limited to muzzle and cylinder that appears more from box storage than holster carry wear. I reluctantly paid $1300 but obviously hadn't been shot much at all. Not to hijack but will try to post a pic later. Good luck with your decision.
ETA:
If too much hassle to return, definitely negotiate for lower price.

 

[Peak53]

SW only numbered the right grip. So, that part is correct.

I'll play the other side here regarding the box. We don't know that the seller was the one who altered the number on the box. He might have bought it that way. A high volume seller might possibly not have noticed. In my opinion you got a nice gun at a GB price and a worthless old blue box. Ask for the price of the box as a refund and go shooting.

 

[RGVshooter]

In all fairness before judging it's possible the seller could have bought the gun like that with the box that came with it and had nothing to do with the serial # being erased. Just sayin'....

 

[Muss Muggins]

Does anyone know the answer to the OP's original question about the RE in a circle?

 

[JSR III]

I would not say that the box is worthless and if the label can be gently removed you have a pre Bangor Punta S&W blue box. That box on fleabay would probably fetch $100 or more.

It is also possible that the ink serial number could be removed assuming that the label is original and worth saving.

OP, is there any indication of a serial number written on the bottom of the box? S&W typically wrote the serial number in grease pencil across the end of the underside of the box.

 

[JSR III]

I asked Roy Jinks what the RE symbol means and he stated that it is one of the many rework symbols used by the factory to indicate rework done to a gun before shipment. It is possible that the gun did not function as designed and went back through the factory to correct some issue. Unfortunately, he also stated that the service department also could have used the symbol to indicate that the gun was returned for an issue and went through the same process.

 

[oldblue]

Working the issue

Wow - super impressive thoughts and wisdom for everyone. I also appreciate the differing views.

While I'm obviously not a S&W expert (someone asked, but I think I've been clear about that) - I'm not new to firearms. I've hunted dangerous game in Africa and Alaska and have had some very expensive DG hunting rifles and scopes, etc. In the past, was an FFL, a shooting industry manufacturer's rep with the whole SHOT Show experience, etc, etc.

In my day job, I deal daily with $500M contracts and contract attorneys so I'll try to put that hat on and have a conversation with the seller. Thanks for the suggestion on that item.

I'm always careful not to accuse anyone of something I can't prove, and in cases like this, I usually don't ask questions unless I already know the answer. Rather, I ask stupid questions to see if they tell me the truth, then I decide how to react. This is how I learn if I can trust someone - honest mistake vs. ill will. Then I decide what to do. If honest, I try hard to be a courteous and patient gentleman to a fault (my preferred approach). If deceptive, usually drop the hammer in several directions all at once (GB, BBB, Yelp, CC company, the Ripoff Report website, local small claims court with summons to appear in my county court, etc., etc.) with no warning. If I warn people they say I'm threatening, so I just do it. Guess I learned that in the Marine Corps: candy bars and fruit for kids; lightening speed and ruthless aggression towards the enemy.

Anyway, no attachment at the moment to the gun - I can take it or leave it.
It's a great point about shooting it for accuracy but I'd want written permission in advance. The gun smells like old oil, not gun smoke, and the seller must know that. Won't provide him an excuse.

Wow - rambled on way too long. I'll keep you all informed.

BTW, I'm on several other types of forums (guns, motorcycles, international travel, hunting, etc.) - all good, but you guys are AWESOME!!!

 

[Skwirl]

Well, good luck old blue. Your previous post reminds me of the old dutchmen I grew up around. They would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it, just dont lie or try to cheat them.

 

[oldblue]

Update

Well, as Winston Churchill wrote to his wife Clemmie while traveling in Africa, "Safari so goodie."

I called the seller and described what I saw on the box. He practically fell over himself apologizing and seemed embarrassed. He said "It came in that way and I saw that a couple of numbers looked off but a couple looked okay so I just posted it. I should have taken a paragraph to explain it." Without my saying anything he said, "Tell you what, why don't you go shoot it as much as you want, and if you like it, I'll send you a check for $400. If you don't like it for any reason, let me know, send it back and I'll refund the entire amount." We talked about guns for awhile and he said "I wish more people were reasonable and would just listen and talk things out. It's the way we were raised, but now, people seem so angry. But gun people are usually okay."

So I shot it today after work. When I got home I put it on a scale; weighs 72.3lbs. Pretty sure it's something like that.

The photo has a 5-shot group on the target shot at 7 yards. I'm no precision handgun shooter; this is about as good as I can shoot any handgun. Now a rifle, that's another matter!

For $1200 think I may keep it - what do you think?

 

[jack the toad]

Looks good. If you like it after shooting it, I'd just keep it for $1200.

 

[series guy]

I would sure keep it for $1200. You would have a hard time improving on it for that price.

 

[oldblue]

Looks good. If you like it after shooting it, I'd just keep it for $1200.

Thank you. It is hard to see but if you click the photo above you'll see the group. I'm not too good of a handgun precision shooter - that's about as good as it gets for me. I tend to shoot left and string vertical.

 

[ben_g1]

Could it be an "RB"? I bought a 27-2 with that mark and it signified a blue refinish at the factory. I lettered the gun (shipped October of 1970) and it was sent back just a few months (January 1971) after to be reblued, no idea why. The guy I got it from didn't know either.

Here's what that stamp looks like:

I had a 27 3 1/2" like that. Had the re-bluing rectangle. I bought it from the original owner (barely fired wife's gun) when called the owner about it, said he never sent it back for any work. I got it lettered and it was shipped just a couple months before the re-blued date stamp.

The original owner said he special ordered it thru his local gun dealer with two sets of grips and a RR/WO sights. One set was regular target grips and the other a beautiful set of Rosewood Magna's. They both were with the gun when I bought it.

Jinks letter said it was a shipment of five 27-2 3 1/2" guns to a wholesaler near the gun dealers town.

What I "think" may have happen was the wholesaler sent one of his five back for the grips and sights instead of ordering another one. The two sight pins were ground flush like they were back then (S serial#) hence the need for the re-blue.

 

[mh51]

Your call......but I would seldom consider adding $400 to the price of a gun just for an original (and correct) box. Sounds like the seller is being more than fair.

 

[yfdcap]

Sounds like seller has made things right and then some. I would love to have that gun at that price. Enjoy that fine revolver.

 

[mod29]

Seller sounds like a stand-up guy.
Knock $400 off the price or return it for full refund..?
More than fair.

 

[muddocktor]

Man, the seller is gonna give you $400 back? Hell yeah, keep that nice 3 1/2" 27-2. $1200 for that gun is a steal, especially on a GB buy. You could easily sell that with the fake box for much more here on the forums. You done real good with this purchase in my opinion.

 

[ejjeff]

Beautiful revolver oldblue and IMO well bought @ 1200.

 

[oldblue]

Beautiful revolver oldblue and IMO well bought @ 1200.

Well, only worked out because of the help of the fabulous people here!

 

[Frank121]

"So I shot it today after work. When I got home I put it on a scale; weighs 72.3lbs. Pretty sure it's something like that."

Wow, now I know why the young shooters look at my S&W revolvers and tell me how much lighter a plastic gun would be.

Might want to reweigh the gun as even changing pounds to ounces doesn't seem to work.

 

[Skwirl]

Very nicely done, old blue.
That's a fine gun, and an excellent price at 1200.

Very well handled to, and kudos to the seller.
This is a good reminder of how to explain the issues and work them out.
Congrats and enjoy.

 

[JSR III]

I was probably OK with the $1,600 considering the others going for $1,750. At $1,200 it is a steal as the short barrel guns are way more popular than the longer ones it seems. That seller sounds like a real stand up guy and I would definitely want to do business with an honorable guy like that.

We here on the forum eat, sleep and drink S&W's but most FFL's cannot be experts with every maker that they deal with. This guy made an honest mistake and went way above board to make it right. Kudos to him.