What exactly do I have

[jeanasa]

Hi to all,
I am looking for info on this piece of Trench Art Shell.
I have seen a couple identical, but not with the #'s 357 on it. I am going to sell it, but would like to have a correct description of it, was wondering if anyone can help, and was told there are some pretty knowlegable (sp) people on here. I hope I did this right..posting the pics..Thanks Jeanasa

 

[the ringo kid]

All I can tell fro m it is its a shell from WWI with the date of Sept 1917 on it. I would not sell it off unless the money is needed? These bring premiums these days and do NOT--let someone tell you otherwise. I have two shells myself-both from WWII. One is just the casing from a British 24 pounder-the other is a US Navy "Pom Pom" gun-and is complete.

If you can take a few more pics of it and remind me of it by PM? I might be able to get you more info on it and its approx value?

 

[jlrhiner]

I'm going out on a limb here, but I believe the "PDp" is the manufacturer, the "37-85" stands for 37mm x 85 calibers, the size of the gun. The "357" is a lot number and of course the "09/17" is the date.

In a little while I'll go down stairs and see if I'm right.

 

[jlrhiner]

Ok, I had to go look.

PDPs is Penchert Denys Paris, the manufacture. Everything else is correct except the "85", which stands for the year the gun was accepted (1885).

That dude is from a 37mm Hotchkiss rotary cannon.

 

[Gunslinger808]

Oooo, I know this one!
French or American Hotchkiss 37mm trench art that was done using brazing and hammering.
37 means caliber
85 means year first made (1885)
PDPs means Pinchart Denys, Paris, the shell maker
357 is lot number
9.17 is Month/year of manufacture
A lot were made and values vary greatly, for your's I'd say it's worth about $175-$200.

How do I know?

My Grandfather's Helmet (I Corp 5th Division),Dog Tags, and Campaign medal from battle of St Mihiel (also fought at Argonne, Meuse, Rhine), plus a Verdun Trench Art 37mm:

 

[jlrhiner]

Here's an archival photo of the gun in a naval mount (what it was originally designed for) on a Russian warship, pre-revolution.

I believe no copyright exists for this pic. If someone knows differently, please let me know.

 

[Cyrano]

I think everybody has the identification of this shell correctly. The part I find hard to understnd is why they were making ammo in 1917, in the middle of WW I, for a Model 1885 manually operated rotary cannon like a Gatling Gun?

 

[Old TexMex]

Here's an archival photo of the gun in a naval mount (what it was originally designed for) on a Russian warship, pre-revolution.

I believe no copyright exists for this pic. If someone knows differently, please let me know.

That looks un-comfortable.

 

[jlrhiner]

I think everybody has the identification of this shell correctly. The part I find hard to understnd is why they were making ammo in 1917, in the middle of WW I, for a Model 1885 manually operated rotary cannon like a Gatling Gun?

You have to remember, by 1917 they were throwing rocks. OK, that's an over-simplification, but guns were running low. Those shells were probably intended for the single barrel Hotchkiss 37mm gun, but were designed for the rotary cannon.

As an FYI, the "French 75" was developed around 1895, give or take a couple.

 

[Cyrano]

Jm: Do you mean that this ammo was also used in the little 37mm French infantry howitzer, I think Model 1916? There's a picture of one being used by US troops in a forest.

 

[jlrhiner]

I think it was the model of 1916. If memory serves me correctly, (hang on), they took a single barrel and mounted it to a Nordenfeldt breech block and then to various field carriages. There was a specific arsenal in France that did this, but that escapes me. I'll try and did that up.

Frances Puteaux Arsenal were the ones who made the gun, designating it "Puteaux 37mm SA-18 L/21". Interestingly, it was also mounted on aircraft of the time.

 

[jlrhiner]

Attached to a French recon plane circa 1916. Note that it is set to fire downward.

 

[durango]

Another resource you might look to is the WWI memorial museum in Kansas City. It has historians who might be able to cast more light on the shell.

 

[wbraswell]

I'd bet that firing a 37mm cannon from a WWI biplane is terrifying. A good thing that it's loud, so you can't hear all the wood crack.

 

[jlrhiner]

They were just sittin' around the hanger one day and Jacque says to Pierre "you know, I bet we could put that right there on the nose".

"Hold my wine and watch this!"

 

[semperfi71]

Welcome to the Forum.

Your shell is most likely from this weapon. The "M1916 37MM Gun". Created by the French from the Hotchkiss design they used it against Germans and Americans liked the concept and used them as well. Originally designed to have a set of wheels, the wheels were usually discarded and the weapon fired from its mount.

Here is a famous photo often reported as U.S. "Army" or "Marines" of WWI in the Argonne Campaign.

 

[Cyrano]

The gun was also used in the French Mles 35 and 37 tanks by various makers. They used black powder as a propellant. In WW II an armor piercing projectile was developed but they were in very short supply, less than 10 per tank. The AP shell would penetrate the Mk III German tanks but not the Mk IV.

 

[Frank46]

That picture should have a caption such as the lone gun or pirate gun. I say this as I had see that very picture and some of the suggested titles I mentioned may have been one of the titles. Frank

 

[walnutred]

IIRC the manually operated rotary naval cannon was remounted as an antiaircraft gun during WW1.