What If...

[plumber84104]

You have a 9mm tucked away...
You have a Conceal License...
Your at a store...
Bad guy walks in...
Has a gun...
You feel you need to draw and shoot...
Bad guy is hit and on the ground...
You have a smoking gun in your outstretched arm...
Another Conceal person then enters the scene...
Shoots you dead...


Food for thought...You do not always know who the bad guy is...That's a serious and instantaneous call you have to make...Second shooter just shot you dead...Justification, smoking gun in your hand and person dead on the floor?...He does not know your not the bad guy...A situation that can go bad quick...

 

[twobit601]

Yup, even happens to off duty police.

As for the answer to "what if" there is no answer...you are dead!

 

[redlevel]

I am not a police officer. I am not a hero. Unless the bad guy is berserk and shooting up the store, my gun remains in my pocket. I try to be invisible. Let him take the money and leave. I don't have the backing of any government liability protection. If I fire and hit the Baptist preacher standing in line, I am liable. Your scenario is possible, although probably unlikely. More likely is an officer, either on duty or off duty, coming on the scene and deciding you are the bad guy.

I decided a long time ago that my little j-frame is there to protect me and my family. Not to protect anyone else. Especially not to protect someone else's property. Again, let him take the money and go.

Everyone carrying a concealed weapon needs to read this at least once a month:

Commentary by Evan Marshall

 

[Donn]

I am not a police officer. I am not a hero. Unless the bad guy is berserk and shooting up the store, my gun remains in my pocket. I try to be invisible. Let him take the money and leave. I don't have the backing of any government liability protection. If I fire and hit the Baptist preacher standing in line, I am liable. Your scenario is possible, although probably unlikely. More likely is an officer, either on duty or off duty, coming on the scene and deciding you are the bad guy.

I decided a long time ago that my little j-frame is there to protect me and my family. Not to protect anyone else. Especially not to protect someone else's property. Again, let him take the money and go.

Everyone carrying a concealed weapon needs to read this at least once a month:

Commentary by Evan Marshall

^^+^^ Red's spot on. I haven't seen many here, but there are an alarming number of CC'ers on other sites who are squarely in the "I wish that blankity-blank would try something" camp. Hope they never have to find out real life isn't a TV show.

 

[brucev]

You have a 9mm tucked away...
You have a Conceal License...
Your at a store...
Bad guy walks in...
Has a gun...
You feel you need to draw and shoot...
Bad guy is hit and on the ground...
You have a smoking gun in your outstretched arm...
Another Conceal person then enters the scene...
Shoots you dead...


Food for thought...You do not always know who the bad guy is...That's a serious and instantaneous call you have to make...Second shooter just shot you dead...Justification, smoking gun in your hand and person dead on the floor?...He does not know your not the bad guy...A situation that can go bad quick...

Simplify. Criminal acts. Citizen legally cc reacts and shoots criminal who is carrying out a crime. Citizen does not just stand there w/ "smoking gun." Citizen has enough sense to be telling everyone concerned to call 911... etc. You don't just stand there... maybe smoke a cigarette, etc.

If the above scenario plays out as described, the second person cc who shoots will possibly get off from any criminal charges. The family of the person he kills will have him by the wallet for the rest of his life. Cool. He deserves it. Same for anyone else who acts like a cowboy and pops rounds off w/o exercising responsible judgement as a reasonable man.

 

[NYlakesider]

Unless you are the owner or think your life is in eminent danger I would not do anything but try to get behind cover and wait it out. Get a good look at the bad guy for identifying reasons later when the cops show up!

As a non LEO civilian I made my mind up decades ago what I will OR WILL NOT DO in most any possible situation.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Second shooter ...MY BAD....Second shooter was not under threat. Second shooter did not quickly analyze situation for need to shoot.

For the reason stated in OP...just because a person comes upon scene with what "APPEARS" to be one situation, may not always be what it seems.

Weren't we taught from the beginning to "Look before you Leap"?

All the more reason to save yourself...let the world save itself...


WuzzFuzz

 

[skrazo]

I think it's good for CCW persons to consider this scenario periodically and have a mental plan for what they would do in this situation. As said above, unless that bad guy threatens me directly and I feel my or my family's life is on the line, I'm not going to play LEO or cowboy.

 

[Krell1]

I am not a police officer. I am not a hero. Unless the bad guy is berserk and shooting up the store, my gun remains in my pocket. I try to be invisible. Let him take the money and leave. I don't have the backing of any government liability protection. If I fire and hit the Baptist preacher standing in line, I am liable. Your scenario is possible, although probably unlikely. More likely is an officer, either on duty or off duty, coming on the scene and deciding you are the bad guy.

I decided a long time ago that my little j-frame is there to protect me and my family. Not to protect anyone else. Especially not to protect someone else's property. Again, let him take the money and go.

Everyone carrying a concealed weapon needs to read this at least once a month:

Commentary by Evan Marshall

Exactly what we were told to do in our concealed carry class. You're in a fast food restaurant and an armed robber decides to hold up the place. He demands all the money in the register. So far, has not threatened you. Leave your gun in your pocket/holster and let him take the money. Cops will sort it out later.

 

[Rpg]

A CCW is not a badge that makes you the Lone Ranger, Captain America or Batman.

Intervening in situations that don't constitute immediate threats to your life is a very bad idea.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[pawncop]

Another +1 for redlevel's observation. In the situation you describe you would best serve as a good witness.

If you were directly threatened, then by all means respond and defend yourself. The decision to use deadly force in the defense of another is more of gray area and therefore more complicated and potentially more dangerous for you.

 

[Marshwheeling]

It happened here a few years ago. Armed citizen comes on an assault in progress, shoots the bad guy to stop the assault. Cops arrive on scene, see an armed man, shoot him dead. They took some criticism for not inquiring, but as I recall, were not charged. I have no idea what the civil fallout was.

 

[gundriller]

skrazo and redlevel, well said sirs. My sentiments exactly.

 

[Jessie]

Second shooter ...MY BAD....Second shooter was not under threat. Second shooter did not quickly analyze situation for need to shoot.

For the reason stated in OP...just because a person comes upon scene with what "APPEARS" to be one situation, may not always be what it seems.

Weren't we taught from the beginning to "Look before you Leap"?

All the more reason to save yourself...let the world save itself...


WuzzFuzz

Same applies to the first shooter. The guy he shot was just pulling a gun out, could have been an undercover getting ready to make an arrest for all he knew.
Neither one of the shooters faced an imminent life threat as I read it.

 

[Brian41]

I like these threads as I do what if scenarios in my head all the time and even have dreams about them. I'm of the mind too to defend myself and not be the policeman on the scene either. Most of the time these robbers are only after the money and are gone. When they start herding everyone to the freezer it's a different story.
If I was in the situation here I would try and have my gun put up after the threat had passed and be the old guy with a phone in his hand calling 911.

 

[Autococker07]

Immanent bodily harm to self or others.

I would hope that someone who carries can tell the difference between a person with a gun and a person threatening with a gun. If not, you are screwed.... fratricide happens....

 

[Kid44]

I am not a police officer. I am not a hero. Unless the bad guy is berserk and shooting up the store, my gun remains in my pocket. I try to be invisible. Let him take the money and leave. I don't have the backing of any government liability protection. If I fire and hit the Baptist preacher standing in line, I am liable. Your scenario is possible, although probably unlikely. More likely is an officer, either on duty or off duty, coming on the scene and deciding you are the bad guy.

I decided a long time ago that my little j-frame is there to protect me and my family. Not to protect anyone else. Especially not to protect someone else's property. Again, let him take the money and go.

Everyone carrying a concealed weapon needs to read this at least once a month:

Commentary by Evan Marshall

Good response, I agree. There is NOTHING that belongs to someone else that is worth my life, or that of a family member. Carrying a gun does not make you a hero. In fact if you're stupid you shouldn't be allowed to carry at all, you're just risking someone else's life.

 

[Alpo]

Same applies to the first shooter. The guy he shot was just pulling a gun out, could have been an undercover getting ready to make an arrest for all he knew.
Neither one of the shooters faced an imminent life threat as I read it.

Original post said, "Bad guy enters". Not just "man comes in and draws gun". Maybe OP knew he was a bad guy, somehow. Wearing a trenchcoat and a stocking mask, maybe.

I have a friend. Probably the reason he is STILL my friend is I never told him this.

He was wiring some money, and I just went along. Afterwards he told me that he felt better, standing there with that grand in cash, "...knowing you you were standing there with your hand cannon in your pocket".

If someone had attempted to rob him, I'd have stood there and watched it. I ain't a cop, and I ain't his bank guard, and unless me or mine is in danger, I'm just gonna watch it go down.

 

[oberon]

NYlakesider snip/Get a good look at the bad guy for identifying reasons later when the cops show up!/snip

Yup. He would be the guy with a big bloody hole in his melon, and a couple to the torso.

Naaah. Bad joke. Not funny. Not really. But be prepared to take cover and shoot or return fire if necessary. You are useless if you do not survive the situation.

 

[vigil617]

That's one reason why we R-E-H-O-L-S-T-E-R.......