What kind of Walther P38/P1 do I have?

[Moo Moo]

Hi Everyone

Hoping someone could assist. I purchase a Walther P38/P1 quite a while ago but never bothered to do any research on it. The Serial Number is 320548. The barrel is marked "548" although it kind of looks like "549" from the stamping.

(There was a similar Thread recently but I did not want to hijack it so I'll start a new one). There was a lot of knowledge on this Thread so I'll ask here before investigating the Walther forum.

The slide says that it is a P38 even though it is after WW2 given it was made in West Germany. I was under the assumption everything P38, after WW2, was changed to P1. Then there is the nice bluing job of the slide and barrel. The frame appears to be made of an alloy material.

I'm not sure what all the proof marks mean other than the antler. Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[quikdraw67]

The 69 next to the antler should indicate 1969 manufacture.

The P1 was the designation for the West German Bundeswehr. I had a similar vintage commercial pistol and it was marked P38.

So I would say you have a 53 year old commercial marked pistol.

 

[Moo Moo]

And how much does it matter that it does not have the Hex bolt through the frame? Does this limit my ammo choices?

 

[robvious]

you should limit you ammo choices whether it has a hex pin or not.. they are great shooters as long as you don't abuse them...
I will get back with a link to a postwar P38/P1 decoder site that helped me on both of mine.. one a very early 1960 P38 marked and the other a 1976 later version.

Pistol P 1 – the Bundeswehr handgun – Part 1

 

[Alk8944]

And how much does it matter that it does not have the Hex bolt through the frame? Does this limit my ammo choices?

The hexagonal pin through the frame has no bearing on ammunition used in the gun, it provides a more wear-resistant camming surface for the locking block. The frames without the pin will wear more quickly in the area where the locking block is csmmed directly on the aluminum surface of the frame. I would recommend using a high-pressure type of grease on this area of the frame to help reduce wear.

 

[Rudi]

The original 115grn hardball ammo is never a problem in a good P38. Not talking about collectable WWII ones. Check out the P38 Forum, they are experts in everything P38.

 

[Absalom]

After the Federal gov‘t in W. Germany adopted the P codes in 1963, Walther began stamping the service version P1, while the commercial version remained the P38.

Functionally, there was no difference. The commercial version, in contrast to the service version civilian-proofed at Ulm (antler), was available in the identical matte finish as the service version, but also, like yours, in a high-polish top variant; these are generally more desirable.

So the holster is a random accessory and works, but would only be “correct” for a Bw-marked P1.

The Made in West Germany added on the right indicates that this gun was a commercial import to the US.

 

[Moo Moo]

After the Federal gov‘t in W. Germany adopted the P codes in 1963, Walther began stamping the service version P1, while the commercial version remained the P38.

Functionally, there was no difference. The commercial version, in contrast to the service version civilian-proofed at Ulm (antler), was available in the identical matte finish as the service version, but also, like yours, in a high-polish top variant; these are generally more desirable.

So the holster is a random accessory and works, but would only be “correct” for a Bw-marked P1.

The Made in West Germany added on the right indicates that this gun was a commercial import to the US.

Thanks Absalom for your help.

The gun is with me in Australia. So did it come here via the USA?

The holster was purchased separately. My bad for including it in the photograph. I picked it up at a Gun Show. Not knowing what I had with this P38/P1, I just assumed they went together from other photos I had seen. Would there have been a particular holster in 1969 that this P38 would have worked with?

 

[Andyd]

The correct holster was a black leather holster. The Flecktarn came much later when the olive drab uniform was replaced in 1991.
As to the ammo, we used the same ammo in the P1 and in the UZI. Originally the P38 was adopted with the requirement to last 5,000 rounds.
The P38 of the OP has neither the hex bolt, nor the updated slide. It looks barely shot from the frame rail condition and should last 5,000 rounds with standard NATO 9mm ammo.

 

[Absalom]

The gun is with me in Australia. So did it come here via the USA?
…….
Would there have been a particular holster in 1969 that this P38 would have worked with?

As for the export marking, that depends on Australian import laws, which I am not familiar with. The US requires country-of-origin on the gun, most other countries don’t. If Australia requires it, it could have been a direct import from Germany, otherwise it likely got there by way of the US.

As Andy says, the period-correct holster was the black leather drop holster, but only for the service version. The topic of a “correct” holster doesn’t really arise for a civilian pistol, but there were likely commercial pistol holsters that were made to fit the P38.

 

[jaguargolf]

Is the pistol aluminum or steel frame?

I owned a P-1 (police trade in) in the past and it was aluminum frame with hex bolt. It was my understanding the hex bolt was only put in aluminum framed guns.

 

[Absalom]

The P38 of the OP has neither the hex bolt, nor the updated slide.

Checking Dieter Marschall’s book, the standard high-polished variant (disregarding special editions) was available only until 1972, so none of them will have the hex bolt.

On a related note, the standard commercial P38 was produced until 1997, but I’ve never come across a specimen in the US with both upgrades; latest guns I’ve encountered were mid-70s proofed Interarms import with new-style slide, but no hex bolt.

 

[majick47]

Moo Moo back in the 1970s-80s Safariland offered a leather holster for the Walther P1/P38, they occasionally show up on Ebay. German holster mfg Akah is another one to look for a leather holster.

 

[Moo Moo]

Is the pistol aluminum or steel frame?

I owned a P-1 (police trade in) in the past and it was aluminum frame with hex bolt. It was my understanding the hex bolt was only put in aluminum framed guns.

Yes. It's an aluminium Frame.

 

[Andyd]

....
On a related note, the standard commercial P38 was produced until 1997, but I’ve never come across a specimen in the US with both upgrades; latest guns I’ve encountered were mid-70s proofed Interarms import with new-style slide, but no hex bolt.

Rare but there .

 

[Absalom]

Is the pistol aluminum or steel frame?

I owned a P-1 (police trade in) in the past and it was aluminum frame with hex bolt. It was my understanding the hex bolt was only put in aluminum framed guns.

You are right, but that was pretty much all of them

They started in 1957 with a few steel frames, but changed almost immediately to alloy frames; already delivered guns were recalled and got a new frame.

All P38/P1 pistols delivered on public contracts had the standard alloy frame. So did most commercial guns. There were small batches of steel framed pistols built at various times, including some anniversary special editions; the steel frames did indeed not have the hex bolt, but they are relatively uncommon.

 

[Moo Moo]

So if I am looking for a holster to carry it in, something like this would be age appropriate? (There's a military type match I'm looking at competing in).

 

[Andyd]

Yes, that looks more like it. It should also attach easier to a belt without a conversion. The Flecktarn holster attaches to the German military belt and does not use a loop.
Both holsters are definitely not built for speed!

 

[Absalom]

....
Both holsters are definitely not built for speed!

Speed is apparently in the eye of the beerholder

It did offer a slight speed improvement compared to the AKAH style that required you to fold and hold various leather flaps out of the way, like this post-war East German version:

 

[majick47]

Moo Moo the police/military style black leather holster looks appropriate. I'v seen a few P1/P38 leather holsters that are reproductions used by WW2 reenactors. Original WW2 holsters probably won't be cheap, the surplus
Akah police holsters shouldn't be too difficult to locate (Ebay) and might be best choice. The design is fairly consistent with all the other military/police holsters that put protection of weapon over speed of access. Much like the Walther pistol German holsters tend to be very durable and high quality.