What Lessons Could an Armed Citizen Learn Here?

[biku324]

A Las Cruces police officer was convicted of voluntary manslaughter for shooting a man in the head at "...point blank range..." as both he and the victim (who was accused of stealing beer from a convenience store) were struggling on the ground. Another officer was within a few feet of the two. The decedent tried to grab the officer's taser; the officer drew his pistol and shot the decedent. All the action was caught on video/audio from both officers.

The jury deliberated 2.5 hours before coming back with a guilty verdict.

Jury finds Las Cruces officer guilty of manslaughter

 

[SWFan27]

A Las Cruces police officer was convicted of voluntary manslaughter for shooting a man in the head at "...point blank range..." as both he and the victim (who was accused of stealing beer from a convenience store) were struggling on the ground. Another officer was within a few feet of the two. The decedent tried to grab the officer's taser; the officer drew his pistol and shot the decedent. All the action was caught on video/audio from both officers.

The jury deliberated 2.5 hours before coming back with a guilty verdict.

Jury finds Las Cruces officer guilty of manslaughter

The judge should throw out such a stupid verdict.

 

[rwsmith]

I don't like it, BUT....

...there were two officers there. The story isn't clear about which one was on the ground or whose taser was being grabbed or the position Officer Lunsford was in when he fired the shot. What was the other officer doing or NOT doing? It's not smart to fight with the police. But then the perp escalated it two levels, one by taking the officer to the ground and the second trying to grab his taser.

 

[murphydog]

I read the linked article.

I am not sure what your point is regarding “Lessons an Armed Citizen Could Learn”. When exactly was an armed citizen involved in this situation? If your point is that someone with a CCW should not be confronting a suspected beer thief at all, I agree.

I’m also not going to pass judgement on the officer based on a news article, but I am guessing he likely thought the victim was trying to disable him by taking his Taser, which might have next led to having his gun taken from him. Yet another reason for a non-LEO to not get involved. Call the police, keep a safe distance away and be a good witness. But again not pertinent to this tragic situation.

 

[biku324]

I read the linked article.

I am not sure what your point is regarding “Lessons an Armed Citizen Could Learn”. When exactly was an armed citizen involved in this situation? If your point is that someone with a CCW should not be confronting a suspected beer thief at all, I agree.

Bingo!

A side lesson would to expect video/audio. Another would be to remember that juries consider "...the totality of the circumstances." If you try to mechanically apply ruled, you can end up with a poor outcome.

 

[IAM Rand]

Not enough information to make a determination here. Coming from a LEO perspective, I can see both sides based upon the limited info. I do tend to lean toward the LEOs but this little info gives me pause to go either way.

 

[biku324]

The LEO stuff doesn't apply to CCL folks.

Within LE, how many times have you heard an officer say, "If they are putting hands on my (taser, OC, baton), they're armed, so deadly force is justified?" I've heard it a lot. While that might be true in some circumstances, pretty clearly it's not true for every circumstance.

 

[444 Magnum]

This clip is a video from a bystander. Shot is 1 minute 36 seconds into the video.

Las Cruces officer charged with voluntary manslaughter

I don't understand why people continue to resist, but I also wouldn't want to be on that jury. Lives destroyed on both sides.

Now that the guilty verdict has been rendered, lawsuit/settlement coming.

 

[murphydog]

This clip is a video from a bystander. Shot is 1 minute 36 seconds into the video.

Las Cruces officer charged with voluntary manslaughter

I don't understand why people continue to resist, but I also wouldn't want to be on that jury. Lives destroyed on both sides.

Now that the guilty verdict has been rendered, lawsuit/settlement coming.

And an appeal on the jury verdict too. No doubt a civil suit too as noted.

 

[biku324]

It's almost always better not to shoot people. Rarely, there's no choice.

 

[ladder13]

Lesson learned?

I’m not a cop. I was told that many decades ago.

 

[Shibadog]

Frankly I don’t understand why people fight an LEO doing his job and then are surprised when bad stuff happens. Best answer, obey the law. If you violate the law, don’t physically resist the LEO’s. If you violate the law and fight the cops, don’t expect mercy or complain when you lose. I was taught by my Dad decades ago to “don’t go looking for trouble-if you do, you’ll find it”. Sound advice.

 

[IAM Rand]

Within LE, how many times have you heard an officer say, "If they are putting hands on my (taser, OC, baton), they're armed, so deadly force is justified?"

In any incident where a LEO responds there is always at least 1 firearm. All the bad guy has to do is to incapacitate the officer and it can be game over for that officer and others around. The thing that troubles me about what little I have been able to glean from this incident is what the other officer was doing and did the shooting officer know the other officer was there.

All I can truly say is that I would never want to be a LEO in a hardcore blue state. Sorry if that is a little too political but it is the truth.

Just sayn

 

[Doug M.]

^^ Amen. Washington has the lowest ratio of cops to citizens in the US, and a hell of a time hiring. The stupid people who infest our power structure think it is pay and the like impacting recruiting, but the real reason is that there are legislative enactments here that flat out turn the Constitution on its head based on the knowingly fabricated folklore about Floyd and other incidents. Oh gee, that video looks awful. Well of course it does, you low functioning adherent of Oedipus - force is ugly. Effective force is really ugly.

Frankly, a head shot on someone fighting and trying to take any weapon off a cop is predictable and to me the prosecutors are not of my tribe and should be disbarred. The prosecution was not justice. The outcome of the fight was. A major problem in the US is a lack of justified homicides.

 

[Muss Muggins]

The lesson learned is to never trust a jury to exonerate you . . .

A Las Cruces police officer was convicted of voluntary manslaughter for shooting a man in the head at "...point blank range..." as both he and the victim (who was accused of stealing beer from a convenience store) were struggling on the ground. Another officer was within a few feet of the two. The decedent tried to grab the officer's taser; the officer drew his pistol and shot the decedent. All the action was caught on video/audio from both officers.

The jury deliberated 2.5 hours before coming back with a guilty verdict.

Jury finds Las Cruces officer guilty of manslaughter

 

[biku324]

Yes - you may be convinced you did the right thing but there's no guarantee a jury will agree.

 

[M29since14]

The lesson learned is to never trust a jury to exonerate you . . .

That x 1 million. (At least!)

 

[dben002]

Don't think anyone can make an accurate appraisal based on the limited amount of data given in this situation....Way to many questions with no answers....

Why did the second officer "a few feet away" not intervene?
Who in their right mind attacks one officer when there are two?

I tend to favor the officer who being attacked had to defend himself but again we don't know what we don't know.

Hopefully the verdict will be overturned on appeal.
Lessons to be learned here........

 

[ImDrRich]

That officer deserves a pardon. Disgusting display of "justice."

 

[Doug M.]

If I were doing defense, I would not have had a jury trial. A judge is more likely to overcome the emotional response of a jury and acquit as should have been.