What Lessons Could an Armed Citizen Learn Here?

[Frailer]

I am absolutely not going to try to stop someone from stealing. In fact, I have no intention of doing anything of a violent nature to anyone who isn’t directly threatening the life or well-being of me or mine.

I am not a sheepdog. I am a porcupine.

 

[oberon]

That officer deserves a medal. Disgusting display of "justice."

Fixed it for ya.

The cops cannot lose the fight. Their first responsibility in such a situation is to 1) not get dirt napped, and 2) to keep your brethren out of the forever box. Every other person's safety in the vicinity depends on this simple fact. (Pre)dead bad guys are gonna get dead.
Pretty hard to act in any fashion, let alone jump into the fray with your gourd or gizzard perforated, don'cha think? Impossible, actually.

 

[biku324]

The biggest lesson is, again, no matter how right you think you are, a jury may think differently.

 

[Ματθιας]

From last year:

Judge dismisses police officer's appeal of law enforcement certification suspension

By Phaedra Haywood [email protected] Sep 20, 2024 Updated Sep 21, 2024

Judge dismisses police officer's appeal of law enforcement certification suspension | Local News | santafenewmexican.com

"The New Mexico Law Enforcement Academy Certification Board suspended Officer Brad Lunsford’s certification amid an investigation into the shooting at point-blank range that killed 36-year-old Presley Eze in 2022. Lunsford appealed the board’s decision, and the board responded by filing a motion seeking dismissal, arguing the suspension is temporary and therefore not yet appealable."

New Mexico AG charges a police officer in the killing of a Black man at a gas station last year
Las Cruces Officer Brad Lunsford allegedly shot Presley Eze after a gas station attendant called 911 to report that Eze had left without paying for a beer.

Oct. 5, 2023, 9:38 AM MDT
By Daniel Arkin

New Mexico AG charges a police officer in the killing of a Black man at a gas station last year

"The attorney general's office investigated the killing, consulting with experts on the use of force who reviewed body camera footage and determined that the officer's use of deadly force was "not reasonable under the circumstances."

"The killing of Presley Eze is a tragedy and serves as yet another example of poor police tactics resulting in an unjustifiable use of force to subdue an individual resisting arrest for the commission of a minor crime," Torrez* told reporters...

*New Mexico Attorney General Raúl Torrez

New Mexico no longer has the guarantee of qualified immunity

 

[petepeterson]

If I were doing defense, I would not have had a jury trial. A judge is more likely to overcome the emotional response of a jury and acquit as should have been.

Well said.
I always figure that if I'm guilty and trying to get off, I'll take the jury. If I'm innocent, it's non-jury for me. I've met my peers...

 

[lawandorder]

Justice is supposed to be blind.

Not influenced by culture, ethnicity, wealth, poverty and many things outside of the facts.

That's why the old girl wears a blindfold.

 

[WR Moore]

Going back to the original post, a CCW doesn't make you a junior G person. Beyond that, the point that a jury might not share your viewpoint on the incident, despite you putting up your house, 401K etc for an attorney, needs to be kept in mind.

 

[fatcat3]

This clip is a video from a bystander. Shot is 1 minute 36 seconds into the video.

Las Cruces officer charged with voluntary manslaughter

I don't understand why people continue to resist, but I also wouldn't want to be on that jury. Lives destroyed on both sides.

Now that the guilty verdict has been rendered, lawsuit/settlement coming.

I want to be on that jury.
I'm retired with nothing better to do. Not guilty! How many of the rest of you want to keep making $7 a day (my state jury duty compensation) for how many day until you see it my way?

 

[Sistema1927]

Another example of the Curse of Lew Wallace.

Curse of Lew Wallace

 

[Shibadog]

I have a very good friend who is a native of Nigeria ( now a naturalized citizen). When the whole George Floyd thing was going on he asked me “what is wrong with those people? Back home a thug fights a cop, he gets shot, and that’s the end of it. Nobody thinks anything about it, because he was a thug fighting police”. That makes way too much sense for the USA.

 

[stanmerrell]

New Mexico is a backwards assed place full of scumbags. Obviously, there's some good people too. But most there are scum. Justifiable use of force, no doubt. When a perp goes for your weapon you don't have any choices left. Ridiculous.

 

[Pisgah]

My question would be: What use of force was required in this situation? Having no knowledge of the event, I'd have to at least consider the possibility that the officer's conduct from the start may,just possibly, have been excessive and wrong. This coming from a fellow who was beaten senseless by cops at age 17 for a crime I didn't even know had occurred -- just grabbed because I was the first person they encountered when they left the crime scene nearby. No description of a suspect, nothing...

It happens.

 

[rwsmith]

An awful lot of 'stuff' is being said.....

I would say that the officer did NOT go out that day to kill anybody. I'd also like to hear the arguments made in the trial. The stop went downhill when the perp started fighting. If that kind of statement was on the record.....

Again, I'd like to know what was presented in the trial. From my chair I would have a very hard time convicting an officer simply trying to make a stop of murder or manslaughter.

 

[Doug M.]

The AG's analysis is deeply flawed. It STARTED as a minor offense, but the decedent escalated it into a very different setting. Compliance is not optional. In my office, I advocate charging the initial offense and ALL the escalated criminality. Partly for ER404b reasons, partly to educate all.

 

[38magnum]

In the reality of the thing, there was an event long ago, called the onion field killings.

The Onion Field - Wikipedia

The Onion Field At 50: '''This is About the Tragedy of Police Work''' | SoCal Focus | PBS SoCal

However, not to get to political, note how the PBS article, makes the murder seem ok by claiming some sort of anti gay/anti minority stance on the cops.

The cop just followed basic logic and training. Grabbing for that taser is grabbing for a gun. Just look at your state laws, at least in my home state of michigan, getting caught with a taser in your pocket is the same as getting caught with a handgun for a person without a carry permit.

tasers and stun guns are a no no last i checked. So is decent mace and pepper spray.

 

[biku324]

I started this thread to help folks holding a CCL see a real world result of a shooting, in this incident a police shooting. I appreciate all of the on-topic comments!

Here are more details on the shooting from the prosecution's opening argument. This is apparently what the jury found to be most credible. It's not directly relevant, but I know Jim Foy, the trial judge, from his days as 6th Judicial District Attorney, and before as an ADA.

"The court launched into a two-week trial two-and-a-half years after police response to the theft of a beer can led to Eze's death. Lunsford shot Eze on Aug. 2, 2022 at a gas station on the 2600 block of South Valley Drive.

Lunsford pleaded not guilty to the charge in December 2023. Judge Jim Foy of the Sixth Judicial District Court in Silver City is presiding over the trial.

The incident with Lunsford began about 4:30 p.m. at the third stall of the gas station. A gas station attendant called 911 after witnessing Eze leave the store with a beer he did not pay for.

Lunsford was the first officer on scene and began questioning Eze. After being unable to verify Eze’s identity, Lunsford and officer Keegan Arbogast forcibly removed Eze from the vehicle to arrest him. Eze was unarmed at the time and resisted the officers’ attempt to take him into custody, according to the New Mexico Department of Justice.

A "scuffle" followed, and Eze ended up on the ground, on top of one of the responding officers. During the ongoing struggle, authorities say Eze placed his hand on the second officer’s taser, though it was not deployed against either officer. Evidence from the case and testimony from a Las Cruces police detective confirmed the taser was not switched to be usable.

Lunsford drew his weapon and shot Eze on the back left side of his head at point-blank range, according to the NM DOJ." Your browser is not supported | lcsun-news.com

 

[Ματθιας]

I've said this before, if you're in New Mexico, avoid contact with LE at ALL costs. A good number are corrupt and/or incompetent. As a civilian, you could do everything right or not even be involved and still get killed or severely injured.

Here's another LE shooting from last year.

Deputy faces murder charge after teen killed in New Mexico

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyrTZ7y8pZo[/ame]

 

[biku324]

New Mexico is a backwards assed place full of scumbags. Obviously, there's some good people too. But most there are scum. Justifiable use of force, no doubt. When a perp goes for your weapon you don't have any choices left. Ridiculous.

The last really brutal murder I worked was the Norma Clouse torture and murder in Virden, New Mexico, committed by a Mr. David Van Allen and his stripper girlfriend, Diane Lynn Wilson, both of Phoenix. Van Allen had been arrested by AZ authorities for stealing a car a day or two before; the AZ authorities realized while transporting him that they had not done the proper charging documents - they dropped him off beside the road. He then stole cars and met up with his girlfriend, then they went to Virden to rob and murder the Clouse family (they only killed Norma - Merlin escaped death by jumping through a window). We caught them, convicted them, and imprisoned them here in New Mexico. Just a moment...

 

[38magnum]

well the second cop with the bb gun idiot. i thought THAT was the harmless criminal that was shot by the cop going by picture.

Remember, some people like to even scores when they get power.

 

[mtgianni]

I have trouble understanding how misdemeanor theft of less than $3 gets you dragged out of the car. Write a ticket to the guy for theft, have him sign it or refuse it. When you escalate things to a fight, some people are going to keep raising their behavior to match yours. As seen here, it ain't gonna end pretty.
Even in my very rural county, a call from a convenience store that someone walked out with a beer is going to get an officer that shows up with in 48 hours and takes a written report that will go nowhere.

I think there is a past history of similar behavior and bad blood between the deceased and the department. I can believe that probably in no case are the supervisors that told people to get this bad apple off the streets going to get any slap on the wrist, if indeed they did tell their officers anything.

Too many egos in todays world that can't handle not being right.