What makes everything in the .40 Caliber range so polarizing?

[tominboise]

I think someone should do their PhD thesis on why people hate the .40 S&W.

I've never heard anyone say "I HATE THE .38/40", though it is essentially the same cartridge - .40/180/950. In fact, old timers who would kneel at the feet of Elmer Keith say it is a "good mankiller" and "it shoots hard".

People love to say the "answer to a question nobody asked" line. That's not true. Someone asked - how can I get a bigger diameter bullet than a 9mm without going to a .45-sized gun? Someone answered - how about this one? And then the .40 was the standard LE pistol round for 20 years.

So then the .45 guys said - its the .40 Short and Weak!

And later the 9mm guys said - Owwwww! Its so SNAPPY!

But for 20 years cops put bad guys in the dirt with it. I worked a bunch of .40 shootings and I have no doubt it works really, really well.

Why the change?

I was there when the .40 was adopted by the FBI, and was one of the field firearms instructor called to the Mothership to shoot all of the wannabee FBI guns. I picked the HK USP Compact, but nobody listens to me and we wound up with the Glock 22/23.

Twenty years later I was ready to retire, and the announcement was made we were going back to the 9mm. Why oh why?

Because in 2001 19 scumbags with box cutters changed the world in general and the FBI in particular. Our number one priority became preventing another attack.

We spent a gazillion dollars on computers and nerds to squint at them. The ammo budget stayed the same. I mean literally the same dollar amount. Not adjusted for inflation.

We went from unlimited ammo for practice to here's a box to a guy handing out just enough ammo to qualify and shooting our carry ammo only once a year.

Somebody noticed 9mm was substantially cheaper than .40, particularly in practice ammo. 14,000 agents times 1,000 rounds a year for quals equal 14 million rounds a year. Every year. Guns are cheap compared to that.

Whenever you hear someone say "advances in bullet technology" just nod and replace that in your head with "9mm will work and its cheaper". I was there.

My buddy is an otherwise normal person who loves to shoot. He was looking for a truck gun and I found a .40 SV thing for $135 brand new and texted him to ask if he wanted me to pick it up for him. He texted back I HATE THE .40!!

I was in a gun shop years ago and a woman was shopping for a gift for her husband and the guy showed her a nice .40 cal. She said MY HUSBAND HATES .40s!!

I just don't get it. I think it threatens peoples manhood somehow.

I like it. It ain't going anywhere.

I don't hate them. I have three of them, including one of the H&K USP40C you mention. Lovely gun.

 

[biku324]

For 21 years I could carry anything I could qualify with so long as it was 9mm or larger in semi-auto and (briefly) 357 or larger in a revolver. When our agency changed to the 9mm, then again to the 45 after 9s failed miserably in our first 3 9mm shootings, I chose the 40 and spent my own money to do it. I still do when I think there might be trouble.

The NMSP recently changed back to the 9mm from the 357 Sig (since 1990 it's been 357 mag, then 9mm, then 45 ACP, then 357 Sig, now 9mm) for precisely the same reason the FBI did - it's easier to train on and uses much cheaper ammo. Magic bullets, indeed.

 

[BC38]

Don't hate 'em OR love 'em. I'm totally neutral on the 40 S&W.
I don't own any, and don't have any plans to. I don't see where they could do anything my 357s or 45s or 9s can do - and I don't need to add another caliber to the bench.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I don't know, does this look polarizing to you?

There are plenty of nice PC guns in .40S&W that most people wouldn't mind owning. It was S&W's new round about the time the PC was started, so .40S&W got a lot of attention.

I <3 that gun.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I love .40 S&W, along with every other cartridge under the sun. Carried a .40 S&W for the majority of my LE career. It did me good then, and it'll do me good now.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Don't hate 'em OR love 'em. I'm totally neutral on the 40 S&W.
I don't own any, and don't have any plans to. I don't see where they could do anything my 357s or 45s or 9s can do - and I don't need to add another caliber to the bench.

To sum it up..........I don't give a rat's behind what ANYONE thinks about the calibers I shoot. Ain't worth arguing over So I ain't

I can't think of two better answers. Yes, those FBI and police histories are interesting, fascinating even, but if you're stocked up on 9mm, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, and .38 Special ammunition and handguns to handle those calibers you might be a little hard pressed to justify another caliber and additional handguns accordingly.

That's basically why I never bought a .40 S&W or a .41 Magnum - I like what I have, I have plenty of it, done and done.

 

[Miami_JBT]

The more chamberings and guns, the better! Hell, I like .45 GAP and 9x18mm Makarov.

 

[sigp220.45]

The more chamberings and guns, the better! Hell, I like .45 GAP and 9x18mm Makarov.

I’m with you there.

 

[AlHunt]

I love all calibers equally.

Well, except that ONE caliber and I think you all know which one I mean.

 

[gwpercle]

I've noticed the same thing ... in the late 1970's I picked up a S&W model 58 in 41 Magnum , I cast bullets and reload , it quickly became my favorite (it's my avatar) and noticed how people either thought the 41 was great or they bad mouthed it into the ground ... treating it like a red headed step child ! Put me in the Love It group .
Gary

 

[johngalt]

There are a lot more 1911s in .45 than .40, and of course everyone knows the 1911 is the best auto pistol ever invented.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I've noticed the same thing ... in the late 1970's I picked up a S&W model 58 in 41 Magnum , I cast bullets and reload , it quickly became my favorite (it's my avatar) and noticed how people either thought the 41 was great or they bad mouthed it into the ground ... treating it like a red headed step child ! Put me in the Love It group .
Gary

 

[dakrat]

.40 S&W will test a shooter’s basic shooting fundamentals. It's no wonder many men don’t like it.

As far as FBI. well, when you hear “bullet advancement” or “9mm is just as effective”. Think of it as “our qualification pass rate is higher with 9mm”. I write packages for a living and I know persuasive techniques.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

.40 S&W will test a shooter’s basic shooting fundamentals. It's no wonder many men don’t like it.

As far as FBI. well, when you hear “bullet advancement” or “9mm is just as effective”. Think of it as “our qualification pass rate is higher with 9mm”. I write packages for a living and I know persuasive techniques.

Guess if we had today's "weenie people" back in WWII the 45acp would just be a foot note in history now.

 

[rogerwnuss]

I think someone should do their PhD thesis on why people hate the .40 S&W.

I've never heard anyone say "I HATE THE .38/40", though it is essentially the same cartridge - .40/180/950. In fact, old timers who would kneel at the feet of Elmer Keith say it is a "good mankiller" and "it shoots hard".

People love to say the "answer to a question nobody asked" line. That's not true. Someone asked - how can I get a bigger diameter bullet than a 9mm without going to a .45-sized gun? Someone answered - how about this one? And then the .40 was the standard LE pistol round for 20 years.

So then the .45 guys said - its the .40 Short and Weak!

And later the 9mm guys said - Owwwww! Its so SNAPPY!

But for 20 years cops put bad guys in the dirt with it. I worked a bunch of .40 shootings and I have no doubt it works really, really well.

Why the change?

I was there when the .40 was adopted by the FBI, and was one of the field firearms instructor called to the Mothership to shoot all of the wannabee FBI guns. I picked the HK USP Compact, but nobody listens to me and we wound up with the Glock 22/23.

Twenty years later I was ready to retire, and the announcement was made we were going back to the 9mm. Why oh why?

Because in 2001 19 scumbags with box cutters changed the world in general and the FBI in particular. Our number one priority became preventing another attack.

We spent a gazillion dollars on computers and nerds to squint at them. The ammo budget stayed the same. I mean literally the same dollar amount. Not adjusted for inflation.

We went from unlimited ammo for practice to here's a box to a guy handing out just enough ammo to qualify and shooting our carry ammo only once a year.

Somebody noticed 9mm was substantially cheaper than .40, particularly in practice ammo. 14,000 agents times 1,000 rounds a year for quals equal 14 million rounds a year. Every year. Guns are cheap compared to that.

Whenever you hear someone say "advances in bullet technology" just nod and replace that in your head with "9mm will work and its cheaper". I was there.

My buddy is an otherwise normal person who loves to shoot. He was looking for a truck gun and I found a .40 SV thing for $135 brand new and texted him to ask if he wanted me to pick it up for him. He texted back I HATE THE .40!!

I was in a gun shop years ago and a woman was shopping for a gift for her husband and the guy showed her a nice .40 cal. She said MY HUSBAND HATES .40s!!

I just don't get it. I think it threatens peoples manhood somehow.

I like it. It ain't going anywhere.

Id heard back in the day, the 40 S&W was designed to replicate the reduced FBI 10 mm load, to be used in a 9mm sized platform.....

 

[Old Corp]

Interesting topic.
I'm also in the neutral zone for the .40.
In fact, you could say I carried one as a duty piece for ~10 years - except it wasn't a .40 - it was the S&W M1076 10mm always loaded with the '10 LITE' (180 gr JHP at 950 fps)
Ballistically, a twin to the later-developed .40.

In several OIS's, it did fine.
Our department left that platform due to the discontinuation of the M1076 as well as the high ammo cost (remember, it's always about the $$)
I was happy they replaced it with the M4566 and CS45, as I'd always been a .45 fan, often carrying some form of M1911 off-duty, against regs.

After I retired (2008), they went to the M&P .45 FS.

This year, replaced that with the Sig P320 9mm.
I'm sure they got a sweet deal from Sig and the 9mm is far less costly to train and qualify with. And for people that are not interested/involved shooters - the 9mm will always win out on cost vs. results.

Will probably never own a .40. Still have my M1076 and a Colt Delta Elite 10mm and a large supply of '10 LITE' ammo, as well as a lifetime supply of brass that I can load to 'real' 10mm performance levels.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Why...?

Because haters just luv to HATE!

I also opine that developments in semi-automatic pistol bullets apply positively to all the "regular" calibers: perhaps some to a lesser degree than others, but positively never-the-less.

Cheers!

P.S. Unless you count conversion barrels I actually have more firearms chambered in 40 S&W than those in 9mm.

P.P.S. During the dem-panic 40 S&W seemed to always be both more available and LE$$ EXPEN$IVE than 9mm: at least around here on the Left Coast.

 

[dave1918a2]

The OP didn't specify the .40 cal. He specified cartridges that start with a .4 diameter. I think the reason most hate the .4 calibers is They are recoil sensitive, or sissys. I also think the reason most like the .4 group is the recoil feels great, and powerful, or they are brain damaged like Me.

 

[gwpercle]

I forgot to add that not only do I like the 41 Magnum and my model 58 but I like all the 40 cal rounds . 38-40 was my first single action love , although it says 38-40 it uses a .401" bullet ... should be called 40-40 !
Like the 10mm Auto and even the 40 S&W .

1911's should be 45 acp ... JMB designed it that way ...
Gary

 

[alwslate]

I can’t say that I hate the .40, it’s a useable ctg and gives people more choices. I just plain don’t want one