What Model?

[Chauncy Thomas]

Recently acquired a cigar box with a disassembled S&W revolver inside as well as some parts for another.
No model number on the crane but the serial number is S 798xx on the butt. It’s a hand-ejector, fixed rear sight I guess, entire length of the barrel, including threads, is 6 1/2 “. Caliber on bbl says 38 s&w special and proceeding that, in a different script is .357 mag.

No grips are present. I’d take pictures but wife isn’t here to help.
What have I got?

 

[Hawg Rider]

Welcome to the Forum! Hmmmm...interesting piece! We will definitely need some pics to help us identify your revolver. S-prefix serial numbers are associated with large N-frame revolvers from 1946-1970. The N-frames are made for powerful cartridges: .357 Magnum, 41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, and .45 ACP. The s/n you provided dates the revolver to 1950-1951. You may have a ".357 Magnum" (aka pre-Model 27) with a 6-1/2" bbl (this was before Model numbers, so there wouldn't be a model number in the crane/yolk). The barrel markings are unusual...the .357 Magnum Cartridge should be the correct stamping, but why a ".38 S&W Special" is also there is puzzling. A .357 Magnum revolver can shoot .38 Spl. cartridges, but I've never seen both calibers stamped on a barrel. I'm sure that other more expert Forum members will be along shortly to chime in. In the meantime, for comparison, here is my 6-1/2 bbl. .357 Magnum with correct stocks (grips), ca. 1955. If in good condition (and with proper stocks), these revolvers are both valuable and collectable.

 

[Alk8944]

Sounds like you might have a .38-44 Heavy Duty from 1950-51 that has been re-chambered to .357. This was not uncommon during the 1950s and 1960s. Pictures would be a big help, otherwise everyone is just guessing.

 

[Chauncy Thomas]

I’ll try to get some pictures posted later this evening. I couldn’t understand why both calibers were listed on the bbl., especially in different scripts. The .357 mag is more like engraved on, as opposed to the stamping of the .38 s&w special. In any case, I will not be firing this gun until it’s checked out by a gunsmith. Thanks for the help so far and will get some pictures posted.

 

[22hipower]

I think Alk8944 has the most likely answer. It is a post war Heavy Duty which was made in 38 Special and the 357 Magnum stamping indicates it was modified (chambers reamed) to accept the longer 357 Magnum rounds. Lots of them were so modified. To some collectors that reduces the value, to shooters, probably not so much.

I don't have a picture of a post war HD handy but yours should look like this pre-war version except the stocks would be slightly different and your longer 6.5 inch barrel. We would like to see pictures.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2pqMCeU https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

 

[Alk8944]

I couldn’t understand why both calibers were listed on the bbl., especially in different scripts. The .357 mag is more like engraved on, as opposed to the stamping of the .38 s&w special.

Because the .38 Special was roll-marked by the factory when the gun was manufactured. If it was then re-chambered for .357 Magnum by reaming the charge holes .135" deeper the .357 was apparently added to clarify that change, and engraving would be a very logical way that that was added. The shop/gun smith would not have the ability to match the factory .38 Special marking.The engraved marking is a sign that whoever did the change was conscientious, most often the guns were just reamed and there is no indication of the re-chambering being done!

There is no reason to not fire the gun with any available .38 Special ammunition available to you.

 

[DWalt]

Conversion of the N-frame cylinder of the .38/44 HD by lengthening the chambers to accept .357 cartridges is not unusual and is simple to perform. All that is required is a .357 reamer. I own one having that modification but I seldom fire .357 ammunition in it. I have wondered why S&W did not offer an HD which was factory chambered in .357. Probably because it would provide too much competition to the more upscale .357 Magnum model.

 

[murphydog]

Conversion of the N-frame cylinder of the .38/44 HD by lengthening the chambers to accept .357 cartridges is not unusual and is simple to perform. All that is required is a .357 reamer. I own one having that modification but I seldom fire .357 ammunition in it. I have wondered why S&W did not offer an HD which was factory chambered in .357. Probably because it would provide too much competition to the more upscale .357 Magnum model.

They just did it!

Bicentennial Texas Ranger

 

[22hipower]

They just did it!

Yes, but at $2700-$2900 how many will they sell? I think I would much rather have an original reamed for .357 for $1,000 or less.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Chauncy Thomas]

Photos

If I did this right, there should be three pictures of the revolver

 

[handejector]

That frame is cut for a Target sight.

 

[Model19man]

The target sight version of the N frame would be called "The Outdoorsman" by Smith and Wesson. They were commonly adapted to the 357 Magnum Cartridge after it was introduced in the mid 1930's. Value would be quite low for one with no original finish remaining in disassembled condition. Maybe $300 - $400 on a good day.

 

[Casual Smith Nut]

Sounds like you have some cool project material there! Let us know when you’re able to assemble.

If it’s not worth much then I say all the better for a project to put together what should eventually become a great shooting piece.

 

[Alk8944]

That frame is cut for a Target sight.

Yes, it sure does! But OPs original description stated "fixed rear sight I guess,", which would have eliminated it being an Outdorrsman. That is why my first response said "Sounds like you might have a .38-44 Heavy Duty" Just an excellent example of why photos are necessary!

 

[Shotguncoach]

That looks like fun. Step on over to the 'smithing forum and join the party.

If you post pictures of the other parts you have the good folks here can review them and let you know if anything is missing.

 

[Chauncy Thomas]

I’m not concerned at all with collector value, just hoping it’s something I can put back together and have some fun with. I have basically nothing in this gun so I want to try to find some schematics, figure out what parts could be missing and get it reassembled. I know I definitely need grips so if anyone knows where to purchase original style ones I’d appreciate it.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Retired W4]

I hope all the other parts are in that cigar box. If you lay them all out for a picture, screws and all, we could look to see. They all have to be there to make an operational gun.

 

[22hipower]

You don't have any $$ in it now but you will when you add period correct grips. You can find the correct diamond target magnas on eBay and elsewhere and nice ones will run $125 to $200ish. Or try the "want to buy" section in the Classifieds here. And if you're short parts, this is probably as good a place to find them as any. Good luck, fun project.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Shotguncoach]

You're also going to spend some $$ on tools to do the job correctly if you want to do everything yourself. Some that come immediately to mind are a frame wrench and vise blocks to install the barrel, plus the correct cup-tipped punch to install the barrel pin. A tap and die set to chase the barrel/frame threads wouldn't be a bad idea either. If the barrel doesn't clock correctly when installed there's a whole 'nother world of work and tool requirements that opens up.

It may be that you'll decide to do the basic assembly yourself and then have a gunsmith do the final barrel install.

Where are you located? There are quite a few very helpful people here.

 

[Chauncy Thomas]

Here are all the parts. There is another gun that also in the box,all disassembled also so I’m guessing what small parts go with which gun. The other one needs grips also. Before I invest any $ into these, I’m running the serial numbers to make sure they’re not stolen since no one knows the history on these.

 

[jmace57]

Well, almost all of it appears to be there for the Outdoorsman. I think I see a missing spring or two, and a few other bits, but bet everything you need you can find at Numrich.

 

[Truckman]

I’m running the serial numbers to make sure they’re not stolen since no one knows the history on these.

I'm curious how you would do that since access to NCIC is only available through law enforcement channels, and only for official purposes......Ben

 

[Chauncy Thomas]

The more I think about this I’m more inclined to find a competent gunsmith to put this together, so if anyone knows of one in the western N.Y.area please let me know.Thanks again everyone.

 

[Shotguncoach]

Hopefully there are sights somewhere in the box....

The other one looks to me like a model 15 snubby that's had a hard life. At least it has a barrel on it....I'd start with that one to practice and learn.

I'm on the other side of the country and can't really help with the gunsmith question.

 

[handejector]

I’m not concerned at all with collector value, just hoping it’s something I can put back together and have some fun with.

I'll be the wet blanket here-
Some guns are NOT worth fixing.
Those guns look like they have been in a fire to me.
I would not put them together and shoot them. There was a reason someone disassembled them.
YMMV.

 

[Muley Gil]

Model 15 schematic. The Outdoorsman will be similar.


Smith & Wesson 15 Combat Masterpiece Parts, Schematics | Numrich

 

[Chauncy Thomas]

Muley Gil, thank you for posting that.

Handejector, a very good point and possibly the reason they’ve been sitting in a cigar box, disassembled for at least 25 years. I’ll find someone competent to look them over. Be a shame if that’s the case but better to find out than invest a bunch of money and blow my hand off.

 

[Jim Watson]

My FLD showed me two house fire .44 Specials that had come back from Smith & Wesson with as new nickel plate. But the bores and chambers were rough. And there had been three, one of them found not reparable by Smith. That was in the 1970s, I doubt Smith would do it now what with lack of parts and liability worries.

There was then also a local gunsmith shop that did a lot of business on house fire guns. They did good work refurbishing them. But there was a stack of unsalvageable guns in the corner.

More recently, I had guns smoke and water damaged when my house burned, the guy doing such work now refurbished them. Depending on the gun and the amount of damage, they came out anywhere from "pretty good" to "better than new." But none of them had been hit by flame to char the wood or anneal the steel.

 

[Shotguncoach]

I've been there too....my house burned in 2003 and I had to have all of my guns checked out afterwards. There is a big difference between guns that have been literally "in" a fire and guns that were "in a house that burned" and sustained finish damage from the water and steam. Some can be brought back, some cannot.

I'm not disagreeing with HandEjector (this is discussion, not argument), but I have seen similar looking guns that were initially allowed to rust and then someone tried to 'save them' by painting them with motor oil for an extended period of time. The barrel of the snubby appears to have old pitting but no active fluffy rust.

The investment of an hour or so with a bottle of Hoppe's and a toothbrush (not a wire brush) and some close-up detail pictures would tell us more. The only way to be sure would be to have someone with experience inspect them in person.

Even if they are beyond repair there is still residual value in some of the non-stress bearing parts and the frames themselves may be useful as templates/forms to people who make grips or holsters. I know a guy who works with leather that would be interested for that purpose alone.

 

[Hawg Rider]

Hopefully there are sights somewhere in the box....

The other one looks to me like a model 15 snubby that's had a hard life. At least it has a barrel on it....I'd start with that one to practice and learn.

I'm on the other side of the country and can't really help with the gunsmith question.

Agreed, a Model 15. Missing the rear target sight and maybe a few other small parts. Both revolvers are in pretty rough condition...probably will need a gunsmith to help with installing the Outdoorsman barrel. Both will be fun winter projects!