What the h... are .357 Magnum jokes?

[semperfi71]

ElmerKeith,

You came to the right place with a legitimate question.

I too am more impressed with Elmer Keith's life rather than his cartridge achievements. He was one tough boy-grown to man.

My favorite Elmer Keith picture is the one whereby he is about 20, standing in deep snow, with a horse named "Satan". Its so cold both Elmer and Satan are breathing frost. Elmer is dressed to ride which I'm sure in his day a man sometimes had to ride in dead winter.

I own horses and know that a name of "Satan" instantly evokes a rough bronc. Elmer said as much. The horse was a ornery mustang which he finally broke and he said it was one of the best horses he ever had. Sadly he reports it was later stolen and he searched high and low and never found it. Even today I can feel his anger and passion. If someone stole my good horse, If I found him, no one else would.

 

[tappedandtagged]

In regards to Elmer vs Jack... Unless ya'll knew them, all we can domis speculate and draw from what others have said. The fact that they are written about and "touted" in the firearms world should (in my opinion) show that they were knowledgable men. As far as who is better than who, well, we can't know as none of us were there to shake either of their hands.

Take my $0.02 and spend it as you wish.

 

[David LaPell]

I can tell you having read most of Elmer's books on handguns and cartridges, and even the one where the whole thing is full of his letters on many subjects, you get the idea that he was set in his ways and that was that. I know he did not quite understand why the .44 Magnum was not pushed more for a law enforcement round, and I think he was ticked off that the .41 Magnum never really succeeded. As a writer myself on these subjects having written some articles, it is hard not to repeat what others have done. It's like a remake of a good movie, why mess with the original product, but if you dig in deep enough you can find more about the subject. Most who know me know that I have a deep affection for the .357 Magnum and the .38-44 rounds. This was more by accident than design, after I got hurt I simply could not shoot the big bores one handed accurately like I can the .357. I had a .41 Magnum that I tried and it could not be done, and I even played around with a couple of .45 Colts, although I may try another some day.
I have tried to stay out of the caliber wars as they are called because what I can shoot comfortably all day long others may find intolerable. Before I got hurt I could shoot fifty rounds at a time of .44 Magnum from my Model 29. I find though that shooting my Model 27 one handed is just as enjoyable now. I don't live anywhere where I have to worry about the really big bears, and even if I did, a 160 grain cast SWC travelling at 1,400 fps from that .357 is nothing to sneeze at.
I think you need to look at the older writers with a grain of salt because its like anything else. I look at Elmer and Skeeter for a lot of inspiration, Elmer certainly did more woods time than most other people can ever dream of. He killed lots of game, so didn't Skeeter but the settings were different. Skeeter found a lot of use for the .357 Magnum but loved the .44 Special. Elmer, once he got to the .44 Magnum every other handgun to him was out of the question. I would say if Elmer was into cars he would be what you would call a speed freak, he got those velocities up as high as he could in his guns. Skeeter liked his .357's hot but he knew what he could do with them. Many gun writers now don't experiment like the older guys used to. What I have noticed is that few of them except for a small handful even really seem to play around with a variety of loads. John Taffin, Brian Pearce and Mike Venturino do some of that but most seem to take the gun and take the ammo and go out and shoot it and that's it. Few writers now seem to have a caliber they like and stick with. It's more about reviews I think than anything I feel and that's a darn shame. It's almost as if they don't want to offend anyone by saying that they are for one caliber more than another. To me, pick the caliber, if you like it and it works and you are good with it, and then defend your choice as long as you can back it up. To heck with what others think, if you like the .44, shoot it, the same with the other calibers. Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead.

 

[semperfi71]

In handguns I like all the calibers and have no favorite.

If I remember correctly Elmer thought the .44 and .41 would make an excellent handgun for LEO's and once he stated (again from my memory) ...."all you have to do the handle the recoil is let the weapon roll up..." or something to that affect.

Most law officers then, and now could not handle the recoil of the .41 and .44 Magnums. Not a slam to LEO's because a lot of people couldn't and still can't.

Also, I have never been in a gunfight...but I have heard that in a real one excess recoil is not good because the shooter wants to be back on target quickly. This is true as well in Cowboy Action Shooting, the top shooters do not shoot .45 Colts with 250 grain bullets at 900 fps, it cuts down on their "time" to win.

There's not much reason today to "discover" new calibers or find new ways to load the old ones, all of the work is done.

About the only avenue left is to experiment with the plethora of gun powders we have that Elmer, Skeeter, and O'Connor did not have. Which is what I am currently doing.

All of the older gun writers had different "takes' on different subjects but they all had interesting tales to tell to a young lad (me) who's only outdoors adventures at that time was running trotlines for catfish.

 

[dickttx]

Don't know if any of you read Steven Hunter, but he has an entertaining book titled Pale Horse Coming in which the main character enlists the aid of Elmer, Jack, Audie, Charlie, and Bill, I believe.
An enjoyable read.

 

[M29since14]

...There's not much reason today to "discover" new calibers or find new ways to load the old ones, all of the work is done.

Certainly a lot of truth in that. Getting back to the OP's question, I have read some ".44 Associates" material. It's been years now but I don't recall seeing ".357 Magnum jokes" per se. I believe that was just the author's way of remarking that the .357 was not held in any sort of awe by the .44 Associates. They tended to berate it as being over-rated in terms of killing power and penetration.