What to stoke up as the leadoff shell in a Shockwave or other short shotgun?

Which shell would you choose for the first shot in the chamber?

  • Total voters
    142
00 buck.

Just because my dad told me so. As my age increases I've come to realize his advice is usually spot on.

Also, guns work because they penetrate. Underpenetration is more of a concern for me than the opposite.

I had a bad dream once where the bad guy was coming at me, I kept shooting him but the hits had no effect...and he kept coming...
 
kraynky said:
Because deep down in your mind, you think you're not supposed to have it, so you want it! Right?

Anyone that thinks that's not enough, should take some water filled jugs to the range and unload some #7's on it from 15' and then see if penetrates, or disrupts the jugs evil intentions. :D
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Of course that's the reason we all wanted one.

It's not that I dispute the effectiveness of your tacticool grouse hunt, I have enough buck shot that I don't have to half measure it to death with 7½'s. I saw an x-ray in a shooting class once that showed a sternum stopping a load of fine shot and what got by was less than impressive. The individual that was shot survived.
 
OK, I don't know why, but I didn't realize we were talking about a shotgun with no stock.

I love guns, all guns. This is not something I'd use for home defense though.
 
I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it a permanent truck gun and something to have besides a handgun when staying at cabin rentals in the Smokies we frequent. Not sure I'll find a place for it to remain in the truck or not... 26 inches is still pretty good size. Or maybe it'll find itself in the master bedroom at the side of the nightstand. I duknow... maybe not. I'll figure out something for it. How about you guys?
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it a permanent truck gun and something to have besides a handgun when staying at cabin rentals in the Smokies we frequent. Not sure I'll find a place for it to remain in the truck or not... 26 inches is still pretty good size. Or maybe it'll find itself in the master bedroom at the side of the nightstand. I duknow... maybe not. I'll figure out something for it. How about you guys?
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So I bevelled the loading port on my Shockwave and took all the take up out of the trigger. I applied loctite releasable to the stock screw since there was none and I intend to shoot the hell out of this gun. I used this synthetic two point sling that's rapidly adjustable from pretty taut to loose enough to sling the gun over a shoulder. I've been carrying the gun in the vehicle when I travel, when I walk around my property checking things and I keep it close in the house in the evening. I don't do permanent guns in vehicles overnight. Another explanation avoided. It can be easily covered by a windbreaker or hoodie and still be available. Another favorite is a dark colored towel to cover short long guns. Nobody sees it right there in plain sight. I find it really handy and it's very easily moved in and out of places even in daylight. Currently running​ 3x3" OOB and 3x2¾" OB because I can and I have 3x2¾" OB and 3x2¾" ⅞ oz. slug in the caddy. I feel like it's a decent blend of simple and effective.
 

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ChattanoogaPhil said:
I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it...
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The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.


Now a personal note on the viability of such a tool; it's gonna hurt to shoot it. Buckshot is my preferred self-defense load. To be really effective, it needs to be 1,300FPS or more. I've fired shotguns with just a pistol grip and they're not fun. This doesn't even have that.

To be effective with any self-defense tool, you need to practice with it. I wouldn't practice with this because it will just hurt too much. Call me silly, but I want a shoulder stock on my shotguns.
 
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Rastoff have you fired a Shockwave yet?
I have and it isn't like my Mossberg 500 pistol gripped Cruiser was before I installed a M-4 style telescoping butt stock on it.
With the bird's head grip the recoil is not bad at all with 2 3/4' 00 buck shot.
Try it I think you'll like it.
 
Rastoff said:
The reasoning is irrelevant in my book. I'm on board with more guns. No reason necessary other than you wanted it.


Now a personal note on the viability of such a tool; it's gonna hurt to shoot it. Buckshot is my preferred self-defense load. To be really effective, it needs to be 1,300FPS or more. I've fired shotguns with just a pistol grip and they're not fun. This doesn't even have that.

To be effective with any self-defense tool, you need to practice with it. I wouldn't practice with this because it will just hurt too much. Call me silly, but I want a shoulder stock on my shotguns.
Click to expand...

So I guess I'm hard headed, but this thing is fun to play with and shoot. I'm making time to shoot this because​ it's so much fun. It's a bit of a ride with buckshot, but it's devastating. With electronic muffs it's very feasible to shoot almost anytime. I have the option to shoot on my property day or night so I practice. The biggest thing I have learned, is how big the pattern ISN'T. Folks are talking about Federal Flitecontrol wads holding an eight inch pattern at 35 yards and I'm thinking, how about 8" at 8 yds? Or maybe 4"? A rifled choke tube would be nice in some cases.
 
Arik said:
Why would you put different type of ammo? What purpose does that serve?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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So Jim Cirillo killed a lot of people in gunfights as a member of the NYPD Stakeout Squad and learned a lot doing it. They had 13" Ithaca 37's loaded up with 2 slugs and 3 OO Buck by night with the theory that they could engage point targets inside and then keep the shot for outside in the darkness. By day the three buckshot came first and the slugs last figuring that the inside would be less crowded and the streets would require a higher level of precise shooting. I got most of this from page 32 of Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad.

There's my best attempt at making a reasonable case for various setups. The best answer is because you can.
 
forrestinmathews said:
So Jim Cirillo killed a lot of people in gunfights as a member of the NYPD Stakeout Squad and learned a lot doing it. They had 13" Ithaca 37's loaded up with 2 slugs and 3 OO Buck by night with the theory that they could engage point targets inside and then keep the shot for outside in the darkness. By day the three buckshot came first and the slugs last figuring that the inside would be less crowded and the streets would require a higher level of precise shooting. I got most of this from page 32 of Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad.

There's my best attempt at making a reasonable case for various setups. The best answer is because you can.
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That's great but it doesn't translate to us, or at least me. Im not patrolling and if I shoot outside my house it better be because the 2nd Panzer division just rolled up.

But even in Jim's case. What happened if he used his slugs inside? Or whichever opposite way?! This is why rifles are better

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Arik said:
That's great but it doesn't translate to us, or at least me. Im not patrolling and if I shoot outside my house it better be because the 2nd Panzer division just rolled up.

But even in Jim's case. What happened if he used his slugs inside? Or whichever opposite way?! This is why rifles are better

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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Where I live there's a big please hold while your call is directed...when you dial 911, so I am on sort of a different program than the normal individual. 20-30 minute response time if something comes up serious and the deputies are misaligned.

Rifle this and rifle that. I have one with a 100 round magazine standing by in case Billy Badass and his Panzers roll up. Shotguns introduce people to Jesus.

When Jim used his slugs inside people died. It's a shotgun at close range, did you think they got free tickets to Disneyland?
If you want to debate the virtues of which is better at close range between the shotgun or the rifle, I'll take a load of OO Buck over an AR at close range everytime. The basic wound channel is larger. I don't need the projectiles to do anything special. The energy transfer is more effective. It doesn't blow my ears inside out. Per function of the weapon, the damage unleashed is greater. I might only need to fire three times to incapacitate three threats with a shotgun. I need to fire nine times with the AR. Tell me, which has a greater likelihood of jamming? The one fired three times, or the one fired nine? You know what rifle bullets do at close range? Disintegrate. I have had Core Lokt bullets fired out of a .308 at ten yards come unlocked and leave the jackets hung in the far side flesh completely lead free. Can't​ remember being let down like that by my shotgun. It's a highly effective platform when used within its effective range.
 
forrestinmathews said:
Where I live there's a big please hold while your call is directed...when you dial 911, so I am on sort of a different program than the normal individual. 20-30 minute response time if something comes up serious and the deputies are misaligned.

Rifle this and rifle that. I have one with a 100 round magazine standing by in case Billy Badass and his Panzers roll up. Shotguns introduce people to Jesus.

When Jim used his slugs inside people died. It's a shotgun at close range, did you think they got free tickets to Disneyland?
If you want to debate the virtues of which is better at close range between the shotgun or the rifle, I'll take a load of OO Buck over an AR at close range everytime. The basic wound channel is larger. I don't need the projectiles to do anything special. The energy transfer is more effective. It doesn't blow my ears inside out. Per function of the weapon, the damage unleashed is greater. I might only need to fire three times to incapacitate three threats with a shotgun. I need to fire nine times with the AR. Tell me, which has a greater likelihood of jamming? The one fired three times, or the one fired nine? You know what rifle bullets do at close range? Disintegrate. I have had Core Lokt bullets fired out of a .308 at ten yards come unlocked and leave the jackets hung in the far side flesh completely lead free. Can't​ remember being let down like that by my shotgun. It's a highly effective platform when used within its effective range.
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I know they died. My point was the slugs are used and now you need to take a longer​ shot, maybe outdoors but all that's left is buck shot. In other words the ammo you wanted for A is gone​ and all you have is B.

Rifles are equally devastating outdoor and indoor. More accurate, more ammo and more energy

Hard to say. My ARs have yet to jam. But probably likely hood is about the same

Don't know about Cor Lokt I use Mil/LE ammo for SD. Good, consistent ammo, nothing comes apart. Gold Dots, Federal overruns

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Muss Muggins said:
Does anyone continue to seriously question the value of low brass target loads at close range after watching that video?
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I'm firmly convinced that it can get me a rabbit for the pot or a squirrel. Maybe even a couple of doves. It's hell on soda cans a cookie pans. I am not impressed with it as a defensive load. Buckshot comes in cheap 25 round boxes at Walmart. I take some duct tape and reinforce the bottom of the box and away I go. I carry a box of 25 buck shot, a box of 25 low brass #6's, and a box of 15 slugs in the vehicle. I am prepared for subsistence survival to defense from predators.

I just remembered a story about why I don't (and maybe you shouldn't) use fine shot on serious things. So there was this raccoon ambling about during daylight hours a few years ago. Something was amiss and I decided to take him out. Not wanting to waste my precious magnum buckshot because he wasn't​ too big I loaded a #6. Whowee was he super pissed off when I shot him with that #6. He snarled and started to turn towards me right about the time the 3" magnum buckshot slammed home in the chamber. I immediately touched it off and sent him rolling three feet further away and he was dead when he stopped. So that's where I think back to whenever​ I get the urge to go easy on the problem pops in.
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
My Shockwave should arrive Tuesday. I'll be practicing with and keeping loaded 00 for the scientific reason that I already got a bunch on hand. Poking around the Net... most of what I read indicates there won't be a significant difference in velocity or pattern compared to my 18in Win Defender.

A tape measure reveals that my Defender with a pistol grip installed would only be about 2 inches longer than the Shockwave. Can someone remind me again why I bought the Shockwave? :D
Click to expand...

Reason to buy??? Do not let my wife hear that.LOL
 
Arik said:
I know they died. My point was the slugs are used and now you need to take a longer​ shot, maybe outdoors but all that's left is buck shot. In other words the ammo you wanted for A is gone​ and all you have is B.

Rifles are equally devastating outdoor and indoor. More accurate, more ammo and more energy

Hard to say. My ARs have yet to jam. But probably likely hood is about the same

Don't know about Cor Lokt I use Mil/LE ammo for SD. Good, consistent ammo, nothing comes apart. Gold Dots, Federal overruns

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Come on now, there was a purpose for the different load outs. They weren't just random lots of ammunition for task A and B. These guys were shooting folks robbing liquor stores. By night the store was more likely to be crowded so slugs instead of shot inside and shot outside because you can see all that well coming from a lit store out into a dark street. Also the street would be less populated at night. By day, most people had JOBS so the street would be more crowded than the store. Rushing out into the street one would need the precision of a slug for shooting into vehicles and possibly avoiding innocent people at a distance.

AR this and AR that...this is a shotgun thread and shotguns are more reliable. Hahaha
 
forrestinmathews said:
Come on now, there was a purpose for the different load outs. They weren't just random lots of ammunition for task A and B. These guys were shooting folks robbing liquor stores. By night the store was more likely to be crowded so slugs instead of shot inside and shot outside because you can see all that well coming from a lit store out into a dark street. Also the street would be less populated at night. By day, most people had JOBS so the street would be more crowded than the store. Rushing out into the street one would need the precision of a slug for shooting into vehicles and possibly avoiding innocent people at a distance.

AR this and AR that...this is a shotgun thread and shotguns are more reliable. Hahaha
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I never mentioned AR, you did.

So buck shot outside​ in the city? Great idea! Less people doesn't mean no people.

Shotguns are nice but there's nothing they can do that a rifle can't do better and faster and with less recoil. Pretty much why they've disappeared from cop cars and military with a few specialized exceptions

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
It all depends on the type of dwelling you live in and who is there with you. If you live in a modern thin walled apartment complex with neighbors right on the other side of the wall or in a house with kids in their bedrooms or other rooms within the house you sure don't want to be loaded up with 00 buck or slugs. Both will blast right on through those walls and can and have killed innocents by accident. I have a 12 Ga Remington 870 loaded with #6 high brass. The rooms in my house average 12-18 feet and at that range if I pop a cap in your A#$ you will drop like a sack of potatoes. At 15' that 1oz load is a solid mass still encased within the wad cup. While very lethal at across the room range, if I should miss and it hits the wall it will penetrate, but quickly disperse and lose energy reducing the risk of killing someone in the next room. Not so with the heavier shot like buck or a slug. A shotgun slug at close range will penetrate the bad guy AND every room in a house and still kill. Buckshot and slugs are fantastic if you live alone and out in the country with no close neighbors. In town or in an apartment I say a stout load of #6 is best. Even at a longer less lethal range, after eating 2-3 rounds of #6 the perp will have changed his mind about what he came for and be looking to get away.
 
Here's what Greg Ellifritz found (Greg is the Author of An Alternative Look at Handgun Stopping Power).

Excerpt -

In my study of defensive shootings, I collected data on nearly 200 shotgun shootings. When I analyzed the data to determine which rounds immediately incapacitated the person shot, I found some interesting results:

Birdshot (all types)- 17% of shots led to an immediate incapacitation

Buckshot (all types)- 54% of shots led to an immediate incapacitation

Rifled Slugs- 67% of shots led to an immediate incapacitation

All of the above results were from shootings with 12 gauge shotguns only.

Bird Shot for Self Defense and Some Stopping Power Statistics | Active Response Training

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
I ordered the Shockwave with the possibility of making it a permanent truck gun and something to have besides a handgun when staying at cabin rentals in the Smokies we frequent. Not sure I'll find a place for it to remain in the truck or not... 26 inches is still pretty good size. Or maybe it'll find itself in the master bedroom at the side of the nightstand. I duknow... maybe not. I'll figure out something for it. How about you guys?
Click to expand...

Mine more or less permanently resides on the bedside table, next to a .45 Shield (I like options). Sometimes I'll bring it back here into my "office", other times maybe out into the room that serves as a home gym...but it always ends up back on the bedside table. I haven't really found a suitable way (for me) for carrying it around in the car or truck...and it's too big to fit into my truck's hidey-hole.

I've actually considered buying a second one, but it's low on my list of gun priorities right now.
 
Call me weird if you want but, mine is loaded with Winchester PDX1 shells. Only 6 for now but, someday I'll get around to adding on a magazine extension and make it 9 rounds.

 
patrickd said:
It all depends on the type of dwelling you live in and who is there with you. If you live in a modern thin walled apartment complex with neighbors right on the other side of the wall or in a house with kids in their bedrooms or other rooms within the house you sure don't want to be loaded up with 00 buck or slugs. Both will blast right on through those walls and can and have killed innocents by accident. I have a 12 Ga Remington 870 loaded with #6 high brass. The rooms in my house average 12-18 feet and at that range if I pop a cap in your A#$ you will drop like a sack of potatoes. At 15' that 1oz load is a solid mass still encased within the wad cup. While very lethal at across the room range, if I should miss and it hits the wall it will penetrate, but quickly disperse and lose energy reducing the risk of killing someone in the next room. Not so with the heavier shot like buck or a slug. A shotgun slug at close range will penetrate the bad guy AND every room in a house and still kill. Buckshot and slugs are fantastic if you live alone and out in the country with no close neighbors. In town or in an apartment I say a stout load of #6 is best. Even at a longer less lethal range, after eating 2-3 rounds of #6 the perp will have changed his mind about what he came for and be looking to get away.
Click to expand...
Well out of all the tactical bird hunters, you have the best setup. I can at least respect the high brass #6 as I say that it's not for me. I'll even say that it's quite a respectable amount of power being laid down right there. That a solid shell that can take down larger animals in a pinch. However you're on the lowercase side of incapacitated still. I'm going to be hard pressed to ever get down to BB's and that's going to take a house full of people in the middle of an apartment complex. When we start defending ourselves with fine shot, we might want to ensure we have a fine lawyer as the shooter and the shootee have potential to become entwined over the long term. I always assume that intruders have come armed and the longer they​ remain capacitated the greater the chance they have at shooting back at me and I guarantee that they aren't concerned about over penetration.
 
Rastoff said:
Now a personal note on the viability of such a tool; it's gonna hurt to shoot it. Buckshot is my preferred self-defense load. To be really effective, it needs to be 1,300FPS or more. I've fired shotguns with just a pistol grip and they're not fun. This doesn't even have that.

To be effective with any self-defense tool, you need to practice with it. I wouldn't practice with this because it will just hurt too much. Call me silly, but I want a shoulder stock on my shotguns.
Click to expand...

I'll get a chance to find out for myself next week, but so far what I've read here and elsewhere is that the Shockwave isn't as punishing as ya might think. Seen several vids in action. I've got a bunch of low recoil and regular 00, target and birdshot to play with.
 
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