Glock 'em down
Member
You sir, are an awesome dad!
We need more of you in this world.
Thanks for a great read.
We need more of you in this world.
Thanks for a great read.
Whatever happened to the classic role of being a "dad"?
- Thread starter GatorFarmer
- Start date
GF
Glad to see you back, was wondering the other day, "Where is my brother in arms, GatorFarmer?"
To answer your question from the perspective of an old country cop -
In the 70's, fathers on TV were portrayed as bumbling idiots and that trend continues to this day.
Our liberal friends have succeeded in convincing everyone that children must be safe.
No riding bikes without helmets, contact sports are really really dangerous, no riding in the back of truck, God forbid they should ever learn about marksmanship, guns are terrible.
The American Father, has been relegated to secondary status for years, because we don't care. We are too tough, we don't understand. We don't want them to be safe.
It's all nonsense. Our liberal friends have forgotten about survival because in their world, survival means other things, like getting ahead, being too cool.
Rant over.
Glad to see you back, was wondering the other day, "Where is my brother in arms, GatorFarmer?"
To answer your question from the perspective of an old country cop -
In the 70's, fathers on TV were portrayed as bumbling idiots and that trend continues to this day.
Our liberal friends have succeeded in convincing everyone that children must be safe.
No riding bikes without helmets, contact sports are really really dangerous, no riding in the back of truck, God forbid they should ever learn about marksmanship, guns are terrible.
The American Father, has been relegated to secondary status for years, because we don't care. We are too tough, we don't understand. We don't want them to be safe.
It's all nonsense. Our liberal friends have forgotten about survival because in their world, survival means other things, like getting ahead, being too cool.
Rant over.
Gator, one more on the "I'm not sure about the full metal jacket" parade, but other than that, you're doing good, you're doing right and you're raising healthy kids. And you write good too!
Gun-runner
Member
+1 on that! I got a picture text on my phone at work today that had my son's picture along with "Daddy I lost my first tooth". What an awesome pick me up for a really crappy day at work!
He is a good boy but in my opinion at times my wife lets him get away with a bit too much then complains that she's having trouble controlling him at times.
Funny thing is when I tell him something I usually don't have to repeat my request.
BruceHMX
Member
Hey Gator glad to see you back. I totally agree. I have to be honest the only way I could be a classic Dad is via divorce. My son and I have done more fun stuff in the last 2 years than we ever did.
While I don't recommend this action in my case it has worked out very well. I'm sure there are gals out there who allow us to be "classic" Dads I haven't found one. My "X" was the control freak from hell. Now that I live in the country rather than the burbs it's opened a new world to my son.
We now eat what and when we want. Sleep outdoors, on the couch or maybe sometimes the floor. Shoot, fish, hike, bike ride(with out helmets), play basketball, you name it when "WE" want too.
He rides in the front seat of my Jeep. Hell I even let him drive it around the fields in front of the house. And it's a manual 5 speed!! How many adults these days can drive a manual much less an 8 yr old. Naturally I sit in the passenger seat with my hand on the handbrake. But he hasen't crashed yet.
He wears jeans and camo. Hates yuppie, trendy clothes. Is active in scouts and loves the outdoors. Give him plastic soldiers, GI Joes(remember I bought one from you), matchbox cars in the dirt anyday over Playstation or other indoor crap.
Did his science project on the properties of rust and it's effects on the Titanic rather than some taste test with Coke and Pepsi. He's bright, articulate, well mannered and respectful. I don't have to hound him to do homework, etc. Matter of fact I don't think I've ever had to hound him to do anything.
I've attached some pics of him and classic Dad influenced activities.
Enjoy
Eating the perfect restaurant steak smothered in real butter
Having one of his favorites. A classic Philly cheese steak. Please note the bare feet. Yup, runs around like that here too outside. Mom makes him wear shoes outdoors.
Shooting one of his favorites. Lithgow/Enfield trainer in 22LR
Camping out in the backyard by the firepit. No tent just a cot beside the fire
On the Appalachian Trail climbing rocks. His mom almost had a coronary when she saw this.
Running a GP 40-2 on the CSX mainline. Note this requires friends in right places....lol...
Ed's not only my son but my best friend. I dedicate all of the above to my Dad. I lost him 10 years ago today. He was the best classic Dad any boy could have ever had. I miss you Dad!!
While I don't recommend this action in my case it has worked out very well. I'm sure there are gals out there who allow us to be "classic" Dads I haven't found one. My "X" was the control freak from hell. Now that I live in the country rather than the burbs it's opened a new world to my son.
We now eat what and when we want. Sleep outdoors, on the couch or maybe sometimes the floor. Shoot, fish, hike, bike ride(with out helmets), play basketball, you name it when "WE" want too.
He rides in the front seat of my Jeep. Hell I even let him drive it around the fields in front of the house. And it's a manual 5 speed!! How many adults these days can drive a manual much less an 8 yr old. Naturally I sit in the passenger seat with my hand on the handbrake. But he hasen't crashed yet.
He wears jeans and camo. Hates yuppie, trendy clothes. Is active in scouts and loves the outdoors. Give him plastic soldiers, GI Joes(remember I bought one from you), matchbox cars in the dirt anyday over Playstation or other indoor crap.
Did his science project on the properties of rust and it's effects on the Titanic rather than some taste test with Coke and Pepsi. He's bright, articulate, well mannered and respectful. I don't have to hound him to do homework, etc. Matter of fact I don't think I've ever had to hound him to do anything.
I've attached some pics of him and classic Dad influenced activities.
Enjoy
Eating the perfect restaurant steak smothered in real butter
Having one of his favorites. A classic Philly cheese steak. Please note the bare feet. Yup, runs around like that here too outside. Mom makes him wear shoes outdoors.
Shooting one of his favorites. Lithgow/Enfield trainer in 22LR
Camping out in the backyard by the firepit. No tent just a cot beside the fire
On the Appalachian Trail climbing rocks. His mom almost had a coronary when she saw this.
Running a GP 40-2 on the CSX mainline. Note this requires friends in right places....lol...
Ed's not only my son but my best friend. I dedicate all of the above to my Dad. I lost him 10 years ago today. He was the best classic Dad any boy could have ever had. I miss you Dad!!
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BLACKHAWKNJ
Member
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I blame Roe Vs. Wade. There are too many men who think that the duty of supporting and raising children belongs solely to the mother.
oromil
Member
Great Dad
Great Dads give the kids a lot of rope but
must teach respect for others space and property...
oromil
Great Dads give the kids a lot of rope but
must teach respect for others space and property...
oromil
charlie sherrill
Member
Looks good to me. What's wrong with FMJ? There is violence in the world. If it doesn't give them nightmares let them see it and learn how to handle it. Coddling kids, especially boys is not good. My kids lost their mother when they were toddlers. They're well behaved as long as you don't mess with them.
HighStrung
Member
I guess I can say that not all of today's younger parents are this "gotta protect my child from the world" type. My son is only 10 months, but my daughter is 2.5. While we do limit "somewhat" what they watch on TV (actually we try to not have them watching too much tv, but the violence/killing is off limits to them at this age) I guarantee it's not barney 24/7 in our house. Our kids eat what we eat, there's no dried fruit in our house. We try to eat somewhat healthy, meat/potato's/green veggies/etc. Our kids love meat (I guess they are my kids lol.) Though my son isn't old enough to really go outside and play yet, my daughter is. We play in the rain, we play in the dirt, we wrestle, we get hurt, then we shake it off after some tears and go at it again. She helps me "work" around the house, and she wanted a tool set for x-mas so she could help daddy when something needs fixed. I'm not turning her into a boy by all means, but I'm not making her a prissy girl who's afraid to get dirty. Skinned knee's and ouchies can all be fixed by band-aids. Our kids are kids, and we believe they have that right, they won't get to stay that way for long enough, in many way's I'm still trying to be a kid. Though I'm responsible in the areas I have to be as an adult, I don't ever plan on growing up either. Mommy is the one who babies them a majority of the time, though I do have some cuddle time with them too. It's usually in the form of climbing up in the chair with daddy while we're watching tv or whatever. I remind our kids often, how much I love them, how proud of them I am for whatever accomplishments. I also remind them that they don't run this household (the two year old has hit the terrible two's and sometimes thinks she gets to make the decisions). They don't get everything they want, I see too many parents being ran over by their children and I honestly believe that is what has contributed to the work ethic/respect/etc. problems that todays youth seem to have. I love my kids unconditionally, but that also means that I love them enough to teach them respect, right and wrong, and that daddy isn't "too busy" to be a part of their lives. If I'm doing something, and they want to help, they are welcome to. I'll teach them everything I know how to do. Then I'll laugh when my daughter is changing her husbands oil because his dad never taught him how to do it.
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DWinter
US Veteran
I raised my son (he's 21 now) as a boy and take my word on this. One day you'll both look back on his childhood with fond memories. He was on the beach in his playpen with all the guys surf-fishing when he was less than a year old. Growing up, we've fished together, shot all kinds of weapons together got yelled at by mom together. I took him on the USS Harry S Truman with me for a 3 day "Tiger Cruise" which he got to shoot the 50 cal maching gun off the side of the ship. It's still one of my favorite pics is him (12 y.o.) in a battle helmet, flak jacket, (both way to big) and holding that trigger down an lettin' fly with the lead. His smile afterwords is still etched in my mind.
Bottom line is if you shelter your kids from each and every dangerous situation possible, you're not preparing him for real life.
He's now a Nissan Tech, hard working (won't miss a day of work) with a good, proper outlook on life. He's not nieve, believes less gov't is more and makes me proud every day.
Protect your kids always but don't be afraid to let'em skin a knee. They're a helluva lotta fun and will grow up to be good citizens and a close friend.
Bottom line is if you shelter your kids from each and every dangerous situation possible, you're not preparing him for real life.
He's now a Nissan Tech, hard working (won't miss a day of work) with a good, proper outlook on life. He's not nieve, believes less gov't is more and makes me proud every day.
Protect your kids always but don't be afraid to let'em skin a knee. They're a helluva lotta fun and will grow up to be good citizens and a close friend.
slowburninsteve
Member
Gator, those kids will grow up fondly remembering all those things you did with them. They will also be very independent and adaptable. You are a great Dad! This is one of the best posts I've ever read! Keep up the good work!
Steve
Steve
Like most men here, I'm sure, I see nothing wrong with what you are doing with your boys. Seems OK to me.
Kids are very simple little machines. They need to know what you expect - where the boundaries lie. Consistency is critical because sometimes kids don't fully comprehend, and sometimes they just plain forget. They need to know that you love them and that you are ALWAYS there for them, no matter what. They need the truth from you - nothing less - even when it is not pleasant. Finally, I think it is especially important that kids be encouraged to think for themselves as they go along in life - that what they are told is not always what is best, or even the truth. The process of developing critical thinking cannot be started too soon. I encourage my kids to think about what I tell them, not just to suck it in because I say so, and to question me when they think I have it wrong, or to point it out to me when they think I have missed something. (This gives them not only practice in their critical thinking processes, but also helps them develop the courage to do this in situations outside of the family.)
These are all very simple things - easy to implement. Most other things come under the "small stuff" category and are not worth belaboring. As others have said, they will figure this stuff out on their own, actually "learn" the lesson rather than just having it told to them, and will be none the worse for wear.
Kids are very simple little machines. They need to know what you expect - where the boundaries lie. Consistency is critical because sometimes kids don't fully comprehend, and sometimes they just plain forget. They need to know that you love them and that you are ALWAYS there for them, no matter what. They need the truth from you - nothing less - even when it is not pleasant. Finally, I think it is especially important that kids be encouraged to think for themselves as they go along in life - that what they are told is not always what is best, or even the truth. The process of developing critical thinking cannot be started too soon. I encourage my kids to think about what I tell them, not just to suck it in because I say so, and to question me when they think I have it wrong, or to point it out to me when they think I have missed something. (This gives them not only practice in their critical thinking processes, but also helps them develop the courage to do this in situations outside of the family.)
These are all very simple things - easy to implement. Most other things come under the "small stuff" category and are not worth belaboring. As others have said, they will figure this stuff out on their own, actually "learn" the lesson rather than just having it told to them, and will be none the worse for wear.
Indiana George
US Veteran
GatorFarmer,
Glad to see you posting again.
I never had the good fortune of having children of my own; my wife's children were grown when we married.
However, I have a grandson (now 6 years old) who I just can't seem to get enough time with, even though we see him at least five days per week.
Your post and perspectives, along with those who have responded gives me alot to think about. Thank you.
I was fortunate to have had two wonderful grandfathers and I know that if I can be half the grandfather that they were . . . I'll be doing a good job.
Note: The gold & red beads were for good luck as proclaimed by Connor! He's wearing his under the swim vest.
Glad to see you posting again.
I never had the good fortune of having children of my own; my wife's children were grown when we married.
However, I have a grandson (now 6 years old) who I just can't seem to get enough time with, even though we see him at least five days per week.
Your post and perspectives, along with those who have responded gives me alot to think about. Thank you.
I was fortunate to have had two wonderful grandfathers and I know that if I can be half the grandfather that they were . . . I'll be doing a good job.
Note: The gold & red beads were for good luck as proclaimed by Connor! He's wearing his under the swim vest.
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OP
GatorFarmer
Member
My older son does have some degree of autism I'm told. It manifests itself in delays with speech. His problem solving abilities are where they should be, he just doesn't talk much in the way of real words, using mostly gibberish. Autism may be more common these days - some theories are that environmental polution plays a part - but it may simply be that a bit more is known about how to recognize and treat it these days, even compared to when I was a kid.
Violence has never bothered the boys. When I was young, I distinctly remember being handed a hatchet and chopping a duck's head off when the neighbors had ducks. My grandfather felt it would be good for me to know where meat came from. Since Full Metal Jacket generally plays in the car on relatively short rides, it rarely reaches the second violent half anyway. Rather Liam, the eldest boy, gets to delight in watching R. Lee Ermey's performance as Gnny. Sgt. Hartman (everyon's favorite cinematic senior DI). He usually laughs at parts of it. I'd noticed that he enjoyed the DI exhibit that simulates yelling (albeit without the same colorful language) at the Marine museum, particularly the female DI simulation. I think it reminds Liam of his mother, my wife, and the way she yells.
My wife, the boys' mother, for those who don't recall is a career petty officer in the Navy. She also has a bit of a temper, being of Irish extraction and perhaps just a tad bit on the mean side. Thus there's little between that for the feminine side of things, and spending time around military installations, that the children don't hear in the way of language. It does rather save on trying to censor things.
For all that - and letting the boys watch lots of pro wrestling and eat all the butter they want - I suppose that there is also the potential problem of being worried about coddling children as much as actually doing it. Our children have tended to be cosleepers - i.e. shared our bed - something traditionally quite common yet currently frowned upon. Neither seems to have been harmed by it as they're quite adventurous, the younger one prefering to be left alone.
My older son still likes to sleep next to me. During a time frame when my wife decided to sleep on the couch, he started sleeping in the bed with me again. Not because he was uneasy about the underlying marital problems, rather because I'd watch TV and often had cookies in bed. Pretty cool for a kid.
Apparently my metabolism passed on to the children as well, particularly the youngest one. When I was a wee lad, I remember being given sticks of butter to eat. I guess that I must have needed the calories, since I ate a lot, but was always skinny as a child (and indeed am thin again now). I suspect that we'd all waste away to nothing on the low fat diet/foods that my wife eats and prepares, thus I let the boys eat pats of butter and all the donuts that they want, just as I've done for 30 odd years without apparent harm. (No problems with cholesterol or anything else related to my "eat whatever I want" diet, save intermittent indigestion.)
Though I will confess to being a bit put off the first time that I realized that Liam, the older boy, was stashing food in his play areas to eat for snacks later when a McNugget reappearred after he hadn't been given any for some days. He survived the experience.
I've never felt self conscious about hugging the children, playing with them, etc. Perhaps my own vaccuum in the role of what a male role model was supposed to do left me without stereotypes good or bad as to what I could or couldn't do, or was "supposed" to do at least.
The "Dangerous Book for Boys", along with the throwback toys sold by companies like the Michigan Toy Soldier Company, are important signs of hope in a world of increasingly emasculated and "safe" toys, books, games, and the like. I'd actually feel better about something like an ultra violent realistic WW2 combat game as a "toy" (you can learn to flank and use cover after all) compared to something like Bakugan which I still don't understand.
The "Dangerous Book for Boys" is marred by originally having been written for a UK audience. In some ways their children are further gone, in others, perhaps a bit less. Thus it was a bit amusing to read the section on hunting rabbits with an airgun and the draconian warnings about how to carry one in the field while avoiding police trouble whilst living in a state where the oldest boy already has his designated M4 clone awaiting him. (Apparently, I can get him a lovely illustrated place mat thing that is usually given to USMC recruits to help him field strip it. Sort of like a puzzle, but with a bit more smelly oil.)
My wife is somewhat supportive of how I do things. She sometimes says I'm an inept father but that it is obvious that I love the boys and that they certainly seem fond of me. Her own "issues" leave her oddly inconsistent. Thus it becomes important the Liam have a warm hat, but she ponders what combat knife to get him at what age...
Violence has never bothered the boys. When I was young, I distinctly remember being handed a hatchet and chopping a duck's head off when the neighbors had ducks. My grandfather felt it would be good for me to know where meat came from. Since Full Metal Jacket generally plays in the car on relatively short rides, it rarely reaches the second violent half anyway. Rather Liam, the eldest boy, gets to delight in watching R. Lee Ermey's performance as Gnny. Sgt. Hartman (everyon's favorite cinematic senior DI). He usually laughs at parts of it. I'd noticed that he enjoyed the DI exhibit that simulates yelling (albeit without the same colorful language) at the Marine museum, particularly the female DI simulation. I think it reminds Liam of his mother, my wife, and the way she yells.
My wife, the boys' mother, for those who don't recall is a career petty officer in the Navy. She also has a bit of a temper, being of Irish extraction and perhaps just a tad bit on the mean side. Thus there's little between that for the feminine side of things, and spending time around military installations, that the children don't hear in the way of language. It does rather save on trying to censor things.
For all that - and letting the boys watch lots of pro wrestling and eat all the butter they want - I suppose that there is also the potential problem of being worried about coddling children as much as actually doing it. Our children have tended to be cosleepers - i.e. shared our bed - something traditionally quite common yet currently frowned upon. Neither seems to have been harmed by it as they're quite adventurous, the younger one prefering to be left alone.
My older son still likes to sleep next to me. During a time frame when my wife decided to sleep on the couch, he started sleeping in the bed with me again. Not because he was uneasy about the underlying marital problems, rather because I'd watch TV and often had cookies in bed. Pretty cool for a kid.
Apparently my metabolism passed on to the children as well, particularly the youngest one. When I was a wee lad, I remember being given sticks of butter to eat. I guess that I must have needed the calories, since I ate a lot, but was always skinny as a child (and indeed am thin again now). I suspect that we'd all waste away to nothing on the low fat diet/foods that my wife eats and prepares, thus I let the boys eat pats of butter and all the donuts that they want, just as I've done for 30 odd years without apparent harm. (No problems with cholesterol or anything else related to my "eat whatever I want" diet, save intermittent indigestion.)
Though I will confess to being a bit put off the first time that I realized that Liam, the older boy, was stashing food in his play areas to eat for snacks later when a McNugget reappearred after he hadn't been given any for some days. He survived the experience.
I've never felt self conscious about hugging the children, playing with them, etc. Perhaps my own vaccuum in the role of what a male role model was supposed to do left me without stereotypes good or bad as to what I could or couldn't do, or was "supposed" to do at least.
The "Dangerous Book for Boys", along with the throwback toys sold by companies like the Michigan Toy Soldier Company, are important signs of hope in a world of increasingly emasculated and "safe" toys, books, games, and the like. I'd actually feel better about something like an ultra violent realistic WW2 combat game as a "toy" (you can learn to flank and use cover after all) compared to something like Bakugan which I still don't understand.
The "Dangerous Book for Boys" is marred by originally having been written for a UK audience. In some ways their children are further gone, in others, perhaps a bit less. Thus it was a bit amusing to read the section on hunting rabbits with an airgun and the draconian warnings about how to carry one in the field while avoiding police trouble whilst living in a state where the oldest boy already has his designated M4 clone awaiting him. (Apparently, I can get him a lovely illustrated place mat thing that is usually given to USMC recruits to help him field strip it. Sort of like a puzzle, but with a bit more smelly oil.)
My wife is somewhat supportive of how I do things. She sometimes says I'm an inept father but that it is obvious that I love the boys and that they certainly seem fond of me. Her own "issues" leave her oddly inconsistent. Thus it becomes important the Liam have a warm hat, but she ponders what combat knife to get him at what age...
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Gator,
From a distance of years I can tell you that the ladies attention while with your kids is both affirmation of you're spending time with them and an expression of a latent belief that if you had the "right woman" you'd dress them better.
Gee, back then (and single) I'd never thought of using my boys to troll for women....sigh!
In a slightly different vein, why are all kids sports now organized by adults? I dimly recall us being able to choose up sides and play various sports without adult participation.
From a distance of years I can tell you that the ladies attention while with your kids is both affirmation of you're spending time with them and an expression of a latent belief that if you had the "right woman" you'd dress them better.
Gee, back then (and single) I'd never thought of using my boys to troll for women....sigh!
In a slightly different vein, why are all kids sports now organized by adults? I dimly recall us being able to choose up sides and play various sports without adult participation.
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I am told I really enjoyed playing in the dirt when I was a kid. Still do, actually. It builds character. I recall vaguely being carried around on dad's shoulders, especially when "my legs were tired" or somesuch. Our PC society is starting to rub off on our parenting...
Also, if you're looking for DVDs that both you and your little ones can enjoy, I suggest Wallace and Gromit cartoons. If you enjoy some British humor in the style of claymation, they're fantastic. I got "Curse of the Wererabbit" on DVD for $5 and me and my college buds couldn't stop laughing at it.
Also, if you're looking for DVDs that both you and your little ones can enjoy, I suggest Wallace and Gromit cartoons. If you enjoy some British humor in the style of claymation, they're fantastic. I got "Curse of the Wererabbit" on DVD for $5 and me and my college buds couldn't stop laughing at it.
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