Whatever happened to the shockwave and other like shotguns

[AJ]

The following a Qualification Course that we had to fire when I belonged to the USMC Security Force Battalion.

Station 1 - 25 yards fire 5 rounds at 3 three targets in the standing position from behind a barricade. Reload 4 rounds and advance to next position.

Station 2 - 20 yards 4 rounds on 3 targets kneeling from behind a barricade. Reload 4 rounds and advance to next station.

Station 3 - 15 yards 4 rounds on three targets standing no barricade
Reload three rounds and advance to the next station.

Station 4 - 10 yards 3 rounds standing hip position at three targets. Then combat load 2 rounds the least hit target. Then combat load 2 rounds and fire at the least hit target. Course completed.

This is an accuracy and speed course. Minimum of 30 hits per target (targets are 2 feet apart). The targets are silhouettes only.

Hard enough to do with an 870 or 590. With a stockless shotgun probably harder.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

I always say that a pump sg or lever gun is basically a single shot when its in close quarters. Most houses have narrow halls, lots of doors and small rooms. If you need two hands to operate the action and you get your weak arm/hand put out of action or are grappling with an assailant who has gotten that close you are defenseless. A double action revolver can be fired with one hand leaving your other hand free to operate a light, control a child, strike an attacker etc. However in a barricade defensive position in the master bedroom with your wife and kids a 12 or 20 ga sg with a full buttstock would be a better tool.

 

[AJ]

I always say that a pump sg or lever gun is basically a single shot when its in close quarters. Most houses have narrow halls, lots of doors and small rooms. If you need two hands to operate the action and you get your weak arm/hand put out of action or are grappling with an assailant who has gotten that close you are defenseless. A double action revolver can be fired with one hand leaving your other hand free to operate a light, control a child, strike an attacker etc. However in a barricade defensive position in the master bedroom with your wife and kids a 12 or 20 ga sg with a full buttstock would be a better tool.

I was a Combat Shotgun and Combat Pistol Instructor in the USMC. I keep handguns in the nightstand for things that go bump in the night. Years ago would have gone "hunting" in the house. Now I am much older will fort up in the bedroom with the wife calling 911 and I will be covering the door. A shotgun would probably work as well.

By the way we taught "One hand, weak hand" with pump 12 ga. shotguns.

 

[TheHobbyist]

The advertising budget was used up.

On to the next promoted new product launch; first movers; and intrigue.

 

[Xfuzz]

I voted against one because I
place considerable value on my left hand.

 

[Screwball]

I don't intend this to be argumentative. The letters you posted both involve side folding arm braces. It appears that they both involve barrel lengths less (some much less) than 14 inches. I would like to see something addressing the TAC 14 or Shockwave with a non-folding arm brace like you had.

I don't take it as argumentative…

I posted those quick for reference. This entire thing is going back over 9 years. If you want to find the letters, it is going to take a bit of looking on your end. Black Aces supplied the letters with their firearms. If I remember correctly, the Black Aces, Remington and Mossberg were all approved on the same letter. The Black Aces DT was approved as an other firearm with a barrel under 14"… the brace had to be used to establish additional OAL (both fixed and folding were approved, until the 2019 change with folders and then 2023 with the current brace ruling). The page noted previously on the brace ruling says that they were approved with the brace, and gives a shot of the submitted brace/firearm combo.

Sorry, but shy of that… I really don't have the time/desire to do the leg work to search out the letters. Think Reddit had some of them posted.

 

[Mainsail]

I have the 12ga with a saddle-laser for home defense. I didn't put a sidesaddle on it to keep it trim - seems counter to its purpose to weigh it down with accoutrements.

Defender Tactical makes a much better short-shell adapter as it doesn't fall out and you don't need to take it out to run shortys or full length shells. So for HD I can load it to 8+1 which is sufficient for the purpose.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feKC6NNoMZA[/ame]

 

[Bald1]

Those comparing the use of a shockwave to a handgun, I think are missing the point. It was never designed to replace a handgun. It's a self defense tool that some will find useful and some won't. Some will be able to shoot them well and some won't. If in a restrictive state/city where a handgun is not an option . I'll take a 12ga shockwave. Good home defense. Good ATV gun in a handlebar rack, or scabbard. Good truck gun if no rd chambered. Heck when the Zombies come I'd rather have a shockwave with an assortment of shells including slugs than a 9mm. Just sayn.

 

[tlawler]

Over the last couple of years, I've thought about getting a shockwave. Never did, though. I know it would just be a range toy and I'd just sell it at a loss when I got tired of it. I would, however, consider a Remington Tac 13 semi auto. I think it would be more practical for its intended purpose, but I think they're way overpriced. When Remington gets production up, maybe the price will drop a couple hundred dollars and I'll buy one.

 

[rwsmith]

Get a 'Mare's Leg' and...

They made about as much sense as those stupid Mare's Leg-style lever action things made by Taurus and Henry.

...you can be 'cool' like Steve McQueen . The gun was a 45-40 but the cartridges he carried were 45-70. How 'cool' is that??

 

[AJ]

...you can be 'cool' like Steve McQueen . The gun was a 45-40 but the cartridges he carried were 45-70. How 'cool' is that??

You mean .44-40??

 

[Banjo 10-79]

What's wrong with owning/shooting a gun for the pure joy of it? Jim Wilson thought enough of the concept that he built the Witness Protection 870's for the US Marshall's. I remember seeing the Bagwan being escorted by a Marshal armed with a WP 870 as a kid. I thought it was pretty cool. Isn't that enough reason to buy and enjoy a firearm?
The know it all vibe is such a turn off. I get it we should just own unfired pristine pinned and recessed Smiths. The evil capitalists and their ad men have tricked us into having fun! Oh Vey!!

 

[studenygreg]

I would love to have a semiautomatic shockwave that can run minishells.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[BourbonCowboy]

I don't know how any of the firearm 'experts' on here could call it worthless or even a fad.

Most of the critics either:

1. have never owned or shot one
2. have owned one but never taken the time or exerted the effort to learn to use one
3. are just parroting others whom they have watched or read on the interweb

I've had one for a couple years and have put 500-600 rounds through it - most of which were minishells that I make. While I would never call myself an expert, I feel that I have become extremely comfortable with the Shockwave and have gotten to the point that I can now hunt and trapshoot with it.

As for home defense: few weapons are as devastating as a 12ga shotgun at close range. The minishell slugs and #4 Buck loads I make and shoot will tear up a sheet of 3/4" plywood. That's good enough for me. And when I walk through my house with it, I can shoot from the hip, from the side of my chest, or with it extended in front of me with confidence. And I don't have the fear of someone grabbing the barrel and attacking me. It's the maneuverability in close quarters that is appealing to me. I didn't buy if for the "cool factor" - but for the possibilities that I saw in it. If I could only have one firearm for survival, it would be the Shockwave.

And just for clarification, I've added the Crimson Trace Laser Saddle, Streamlight TL-Racker, XS Big Dot, TacStar Slimline Side Saddle, and Defender Tactical Minishell Adapter and Safety.

The Judge/Governor revolvers are just as "useless," but they keep making them and people keep buying them.

I keep a "useless" Judge on my nightstand...to help me get to my Shockwave.

 

[Banjo 10-79]

I'm an 870 man but the shockwave certainly worked well in that Texas dumpster dispute. Those who doubt that can take their swing. ��

 

[VictorLouis]

Erich beat me to the mention on page one. However, here's the best one to showcase as he actually teaches Ian how to run it.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UDeNrjGhtE&t=635s[/ame]

 

[Imissedagain]

From the web about Josh Randell:

The Mare's Leg weapon carried by Josh Randall (Steve McQueen) is a cut down Winchester model 1892 carbine in 44-40 caliber, but the bullets in his cartridge belt are 45-70 caliber rounds used in the larger, more powerful rifles of the day. The producers wanted to use the 45-70s because they were more visually impressive than the relatively small, pistol sized rounds actually used in the 1892 carbine. The use of the 1892 carbine is itself an anachronism as the series is set in the 1870s.

I bought one of these as a kid in the late '50s.
pic from web as mine is in the ... future gifts for grandkid's closet.

 

[Octagun]

What is it?

It's a Remington V3 Tac-13. It originally came with a birds head grip and was classified as a 'firearm'. I e-filed a Form 1 (which came back in 25 days) and made some bolts to adapt a Magpul 870 SGA to it. It's semi-automatic action reduces recoil so effectively I can see how folks could shoot it without a stock. Although that is something I have not tried.

 

[sureshotbob]

Thank you Mainsail and Victor Louis for posting your videos on the Shockwave.
Now you made me spend more money and ordered a couple more goodies for my Shockwave and Maveric 88.
Even though I had the Opsol mini shell adapter for the shockwave that so far has been flawless in the Shockwave it was not flawless in my Maveric 88.
The Opsol adapter limits you to only the mini shells where theDefender Tactical Adapter will allow you to use the mini shells up through 3"shells in any order I ordered 2 one for the Shockwave and 1 for the Maveric 88.
I also ordered the birds head grip wrist strap from Defender Tactical for the Shockwave.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

Because they are a terrible idea. Heck, I have only been shooting 3 years, and even I know that a shotgun without a stock would be hellacious to shoot. A revolver is more easily carried and concealed, while a traditional shotgun with a stock is far easier to shoot well. Like most hybrid guns, it is trying to be a jack of all trades but ends up being a master of none. Horrible concept IMO...

 

[Muss Muggins]

Modeled after the storied US Marshal Witness Protection Remington 870, used for years to protect federal judges and apprehend federal fugitives. But really, what do they know?

Because they are a terrible idea. Heck, I have only been shooting 3 years, and even I know that a shotgun without a stock would be hellacious to shoot. A revolver is more easily carried and concealed, while a traditional shotgun with a stock is far easier to shoot well. Like most hybrid guns, it is trying to be a jack of all trades but ends up being a master of none. Horrible concept IMO...

 

[Bald1]

Because they are a terrible idea. Heck, I have only been shooting 3 years, and even I know that a shotgun without a stock would be hellacious to shoot. A revolver is more easily carried and concealed, while a traditional shotgun with a stock is far easier to shoot well. Like most hybrid guns, it is trying to be a jack of all trades but ends up being a master of none. Horrible concept IMO...

You've only been shooting 3 yrs kinda sums up some of the opinions here. Are you basing your opinions on videos? Personal experiences? Countless people in this thread have stated they are not "hellacious" . Me included. And nobody is comparing it to a revolver.

 

[SAFireman]

Modeled after the storied US Marshal Witness Protection Remington 870, used for years to protect federal judges and apprehend federal fugitives. But really, what do they know?

Yup, I had seen the WITSEC 870's for years on end and lusted after one, but never really wanted the hassle of the paperwork to have one. When Remington offered the Hardwood Tac-14's I put in my order.

I had folks clamoring about the 'shootability', usefullness, ect, but I carried on. And like I said earlier, it is VERY comforting in the front seat of a pickup during civil unrest.

It is easier to shoot well than a lot of the so-called 'tube experts would have you believe, and I use standard police issue 00 Buck.

 

[AJ]

The LGS usually has 14 inch barrels for 870's that he sells on Gunbroker. I guess you can buy the barrel and have an 870, but not the two together in one package.

 

[John_M52]

My FIL bought one in .410. Ammo availability is an issue.

 

[.357magger]

People have really short term memories.

And they opine about things they really don't understand.

Wilson Combat years ago offered an exact same concept called the "Witness Protection". It was modeled after modified shotguns used by the US Marshals Service. Coincidentally enough, that agency provided my agency with its first formal SWAT training at Ft Polk, LA. And we trained extensively with this model, shooting both point blank with #4 buck and out to 25 yards with both buck and slugs. To my knowledge they field them to this day.

To suggest that these are "useless" is, with all due respect, a very ignorant comment, and is most often made by people who assume a "pistol grip" is the same as a birdshead grip on the Shockwave. It isn't remotely the same. And that birdshead makes all the difference in both firing and close quarters manipulation. I know because I personally used an SBR variant years before the Shockwave was introduced for innumerable felony stops, building searches, and dynamic entries.

There are many goofy videos out there (wow, go figure, on the internet?) of people who don't know how to use this. There is also an EXCELLENT video of instruction by Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch that shows exactly the same training concept as taught by the US Marshals.

So the US Marshals have used a "useless" weapon for decades?

 

[Echo40]

Cue highly opinionated posts about how Law Enforcement Agencies and the Military are run by uneducated bureaucrats based on cherry-picked anecdotal evidence regarding past choices of standard issue weaponry which the poster feels were inferior to that which was previously issued or otherwise should have been issued.

 

[abigails&w]

Have one

Have one in 12 Ga with wood furniture ("nightstick" variant) and love it! Smooth action, fast to deploy and so much fun to shot. I shot mine so far exclusively with 00 Buck, whatever can find of weaker kind. Holding it up to the eye with push-pull technique far from face, like having an imaginary stock. In pic near my 18.5" 12Ga 590A1.

[edit] found how to embed the pic

 

[prescobd]

I just qualified for work using one. It was the first time firing it. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I qualified the first go round, using 00 buck and slugs. I think it appropriate for the confines of a vehicle.

 

[vipermd]

Recent brace ruling… even though there were numerous letters/approvals on that setup. Hell, Black Aces had their DT approved WITH a folding brace.

Then people started putting folders on AR pistols, and asking if they could still get their 26+" OAL to allow for a vertical grip. Nixed the folding braces on those… to include that version of the DT. Black Aces had to swap in fixed adapters for those guns.

The new ruling says they are not pistols, so cannot use pistol braces. But I'll play that game. I SBRed everything for free that I could/was planning on… I'll pay $200 for the TAC-14 and my .45 AR.

I never saw a ruling that said you could use a pistol brace on a Shockwave. The original instructions with the firearm state: Page 22 THIS FIREARM, AS DELIVERED FROM THE FACTORY, IS EQUIPPED
WITH A SHOCKWAVE TECHNOLOGIES RAPTOR GRIP ONLY. RE-
PLACING THE SHOCKWAVE TECHNOLOGIES RAPTOR GRIP WITH
A BUTTSTOCK OR OTHER PISTOL GRIP MAY CHANGE THIS
FIREARM'S ATF CLASSIFICATION, AND MAY RESULT IN A VIOLA-
TION OF NFA REGULATIONS UNLESS THE PROPER ATF FORMS
ARE COMPLETED, AND THE TAX IS PAID. ALSO, CHECK WITH
YOUR LOCAL LICENSED RETAILER OR STATE POLICE FOR ADDI-
TIONAL RESTRICTIONS THAT MAY BE IMPOSED BY STATE OR
LOCAL LAW OR REGULATION ON FIREARMS OF THIS TYPE. So putting a brace on it was always illegal. Be Safe,