What's in your defensive 1911... FMJ or JHP?

[Rick_A]

This stuff.
20150720_095433 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

I believe it's some old Winchester 230gr of some kind.

The gun will feed empty casings between live rounds, but I like to stick to 230gr hollowpoints.

Anything with a modern ramp and barrel throat should work just fine with JHP. The ONLY reason to go FMJ is an older gun not "cut" for it. If your modern 1911 does not feed hollowpoints get the manufacturer to make it right or find someone reputable that will.

 

[LimaCharlie]

All of my Colt and Dan Wesson government model 1911s feed any ammo I feed them. I carry a 1911 from the time I get dressed until it goes on the nightstand when I go to bed. They are loaded with Winchester PDX1 Defender 230 grain JHP ammo. I will not own a gun that is ammo sensitive.

 

[Protected One]

Dan Wesson CCO with Hornady 185 grain FTX Critical Defense. FYI: by definition these are not JHPs, that's why I posted other. They are also legal in jurisdictions where hollow point ammo is illegal, e.g., New Jersey.

Really? I had not heard that they were not considered hollow points. Did you get that definition from Hornady's website?

 

[Xfuzz]

230gr "Hardball"...Been lyin down
bad guys purt neat 104 years.

 

[SC_Mike]

Full size 1911- 230 grain JHP

Commander or compact 1911- 185 grain JHP

I have carried ball ammo as back up before.

 

[Damn Yankee]

If I had one I would go 460 Rowland.

 

[TucsonMTB]

This stuff runs well in all our 1911's, is soft shooting, and surprisingly accurate.

 

[REM 3200]

My 1943 1911A1 Remington-Rand gets Speer 230 Gold-Dot JHP, non +P.
The 3 inch Kimber Eclipse gets Speer 230 Short Bbl. JHP, non +P.

The above have been tested over the years for reliability and not found wanting.

The Kimber is now being tested with Barnes 185 +P all copper HP.
I'm at 550 rounds of the Barnes with-out a bobble now.
Yes, it does get expensive, but the peace of mind is worth it.
I was gonna' shoot it anyway so it's not too bad.

 

[Rastoff]

Rastoff, that's not quite correct - I think it's 230 grain FMJ hardball...

This is correct if you're referring to the round that was accepted along with the gun back in 1911. However, the 200 grain round has been around just as long. Probably not as popular, but still effective.

...but you don't need to be sending that kind of ammo at your perpetrating opponent who has who knows what behind him in terms of innocent bystanders. Or has a drywall behind him and a baby's room is next. You want expanding ammunition.

If we ignore rule 4, then you might be correct. However, concern of over penetration is not high on my list. I've done some penetration testing with the hardball stuff and it's very unlikely that it will go through a bad guy, through a wall and into someone else.

I've also seen a lot of penetration testing with JHP rounds. In ballistics gel and liquids they have good expansion properties. Every other material, not so much. I even know of one guy who shot himself through his right thigh and into his left calf with a .357Mag JHP and it never expanded (lucky for him).

I'm not minimizing anything here. I have as much concern for my fellow man as anyone. It's just unlikely that I, or anyone else, will be firing into a crowd. Again, rule 4; be aware of your target and what's in line with it.

The most important consideration of a defensive firearm is functional reliability. If it don't work, it's useless. I've tested my 1911 with thousands of hardball rounds (both 200 and 230). I have fired a few JHP rounds through it, and they worked, but haven't fully vetted the gun with them. So, I see no reason to change.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here have an article, or case law, where an innocent was injured/killed by a round that passed through the bad guy?

 

[old tanker]

GI issue hardball is what I have carried the most as that is what the Army issued. When I needed it to work, it did, although, given the hits, a lesser cartridge might have as well. About thirty years ago a buddy a introduced me to IPSC and the 225 grain truncated cone cast lead bullet that he favored. Since then I have shot a ton of them in club matches and in general use. They came from Bull-X then, now I use Lasar Cast. (Lots of folks make them; those are just the ones I have personally used.) They feed and function flawlessly in my hardball guns.

Six grains of Unique pushes them out a of a Combat Commander at 925 fps. When they checked that ammo at a match, they had no doubt it made major. That load has accounted for two whitetail deer and a half dozen feral hogs over the years. It penetrates well and I am confident it will do what I need if I do my part.

I load and shoot a lot of this ammo and, by default, it is what is most likely to be in the gun.

Firmly in the camp of those who believe that where you shoot them is more important than what you shoot them with, I think practicing so I can reliably hit what I need to hit is what matters most.

 

[Arik]

out of curiosity, does anyone here have an article, or case law, where an innocent was injured/killed by a round that passed through the bad guy?

Hard to say. You sometimes hear that during a,shootout several bystanders were wounded. You never know how though. Ricochet, full hit, shot through .....they never say


Not all HP are equal. There are some poor excuses for HP ammo. Just because it has a hole in it doesn't make it work good. This is where tests and reviews come from. Also in your case the gun was probably too close, almost point blank and never had time to expend, cause even at a distance the bullet travels 6 inches +/- before expanding

 

[Muss Muggins]

black talon jhp

 

[Muss Muggins]

I carry NOTHING but hollowpoints, JHPs for 9x19mm, 40S&W and .45acp, and lead HP-SWC in .38/.357.

I don't have an unlimited pot of public money to pay off judgments from through and throughs.

Got an example of a judgment paid off that you couldn't afford? I've not heard of one . . .

 

[ContinentalOp]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here have an article, or case law, where an innocent was injured/killed by a round that passed through the bad guy?

NEW YORK POLICE WILL START USING DEADLIER BULLETS - NYTimes.com

From the article:

According to statistics released by the department, 15 innocent bystanders were struck by police officers using full-metal-jacket bullets during 1995 and 1996, the police said. Eight were hit directly, five were hit by bullets that had passed through other people and two were hit by bullets that had passed through objects.

In that same period, officers in the Transit Bureau, who already used the hollow points, struck six bystanders. Four of them were hit directly, one was hit by a bullet that ricocheted and another was hit by a bullet that passed through an object.

In that same period, 44 police officers were struck by police gunfire using the old ammunition: 21 were hit directly, 2 were struck by bullets that ricocheted and 17 were struck by bullets that passed though other people. Of the four officers struck by hollow-point bullets, three were hit directly and one was hit by a bullet that passed through another person.

 

[Magload]

My 1911 R1 eats anything and my Gold Cup NM was choking and a bunch of stuff till I polished the feed ramp now it is doing fine. Don

 

[Rastoff]

Thanks for the article ContinentalOp. Interesting that while the percentages are lower (smaller statistical population too), hollow points still go through. These were all 9mm too.

...even at a distance the bullet travels 6 inches +/- before expanding

This is interesting. If true, the round will travel mostly through a person before it starts to expand.

In the end, guns are seriously nasty tools. People miss, bullets ricochet and sometimes they go through. This is a fact and there's no way around it. Anyone who says that a JHP isn't better than hardball, assuming it expands, is off their rocker. Anyone who says placement isn't as important as caliber or bullet type, is also wrong.

The OP asked what we use. I told. It's enough.

The 1911 is ordained by God to defend His children. It was made by His prophet JM Browning. The .45ACP is the only correct caliber to use. "A 9mm JHP might expand to be the same size as a .45ACP, but the .45ACP won't get smaller." ~JM Browning's acolyte, Col. Cooper

In case your sarcasm detector is broken, that last paragraph was just having fun.

 

[Arik]

Thanks for the article ContinentalOp. Interesting that while the percentages are lower (smaller statistical population too), hollow points still go through. These were all 9mm too.

This is interesting. If true, the round will travel mostly through a person before it starts to expand.
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Actually you want at least 12 inches of penetration to make sure you reach the vitals

 

[BillyMagg]

I've been doing a lot of research into a 1911 purchase.

I have personally experienced feeding issues with JHP in two 1911s I've tried recently. With some research I've seen this is somewhat common.

I also have seen that a lot of people run FMJ in their 1911s.

So out of curiosity, what do you choose to load in your 1911?

FMJ or JHP?

Hornady 200 Grain JHP in my 45s, Winchester 125gr Silvertip Hollow Point in my Super 38, these two loads always function 100%.

 

[BillyMagg]

Thanks for the article ContinentalOp. Interesting that while the percentages are lower (smaller statistical population too), hollow points still go through. These were all 9mm too.

This is interesting. If true, the round will travel mostly through a person before it starts to expand.

In the end, guns are seriously nasty tools. People miss, bullets ricochet and sometimes they go through. This is a fact and there's no way around it. Anyone who says that a JHP isn't better than hardball, assuming it expands, is off their rocker. Anyone who says placement isn't as important as caliber or bullet type, is also wrong.

The OP asked what we use. I told. It's enough.

The 1911 is ordained by God to defend His children. It was made by His prophet JM Browning. The .45ACP is the only correct caliber to use. "A 9mm JHP might expand to be the same size as a .45ACP, but the .45ACP won't get smaller." ~JM Browning's acolyte, Col. Cooper

In case your sarcasm detector is broken, that last paragraph was just having fun.

Well I'm gonna stick with Frank Hamer and the Super 38, two more rounds just for fun. I had serious feeding issues with my stainless Springfield Armory that shipped with 8 round JUNK magazines??? those ugly black ones, and then they sent me 5, eight round stainless mags, (this was a long time ago) when the loaded stainless first came out, crude nasty junky mags.

So I called some Chick at SA, Peggy, and asked what mags they shipped out of the custom shop, nothing but seven round metal-forms, so I said send me some of those, they said we can't authorize that, and I said who can? so the boss-man sent me 5 seven round metal forms, they are still perfect.

 

[Nedroe]

I Use.......

Black Talon's in my Colt Silver Stallion.



Ned

 

[STCM(SW)]

"The 1911 is ordained by God to defend His children. It was made by His prophet JM Browning. The .45ACP is the only correct caliber to use. "A 9mm JHP might expand to be the same size as a .45ACP, but the .45ACP won't get smaller." ~JM Browning's acolyte, Col. Cooper"

My kind of thinking....
First round in the chamber is a HP, but the following are all FMJ HB.

 

[Ogandydancer]

Don't have a 1911 yet but if and when I do it will be what I use in everything else JHP.

 

[Valmet]

Years ago when I CCW'd a Colt LW Commander I always kept 230-gr JHP Remington Golden Sabers in it. I don't recall ever having an issue with that ammo in my particular 1911.

 

[Jonzim]

Federal 230gr HST in my Sig 1911 RCS

 

[old tanker]

The 1911 is ordained by God to defend His children. It was made by His prophet JM Browning. The .45ACP is the only correct caliber to use. "A 9mm JHP might expand to be the same size as a .45ACP, but the .45ACP won't get smaller." ~JM Browning's acolyte, Col. Cooper

In case your sarcasm detector is broken, that last paragraph was just having fun.

Getting a 1911 in 9mm is like buying a Corvette with a stovebolt Six and a Powerglide...

 

[old tanker]

NEW YORK POLICE WILL START USING DEADLIER BULLETS - NYTimes.com

Given typical police hit ratios, I always chuckle at those who are concerned by the bullet going through the bad guy to hit the little old lady down the street but seemingly discount the 3 and 5 bullets flying downrange the crook hadn't slowed down some.

Keeping track of the friendlies, while under fire, with adrenaline pumping, tunnel vision and not hitting them is a tremendous problem, regardless.

 

[samnev]

I use Hornady Critical Defense as my 45 ACP defense load.

 

[cmort666]

Given typical police hit ratios, I always chuckle at those who are concerned by the bullet going through the bad guy to hit the little old lady down the street but seemingly discount the 3 and 5 bullets flying downrange the crook hadn't slowed down some.

The NYPD has a storied history of BOTH shooting the wrong people, AND shooting THROUGH the right ones. After a while, even they started running out of the public's money and went to expanding ammunition.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

This again? Really? It has only been a week or two since we had this endless debate.

Carry what you know works best in your pistol. Let everybody else do the same.

 

[Absalom]

Well I'm gonna stick with Frank Hamer and the Super 38, two more rounds just for fun. ....

I'm not faulting your choice at all, but I'm sure you are aware that Frank Hamer carried the .38 Super for one reason only, and that had nothing to do with stopping power, but with a characteristic that's rather undesirable today, namely its tendency to overpenetrate. The .38 Super, in contrast to the standard .38 Special and .45 ACP loads of the 1930s, was able to penetrate the protective vests which were available at the time, and which were becoming popular with the gangsters of the "public enemy" era.

That's probably a less valid consideration nowadays, although the .38 Super is a very accurate round from the 1911 platform and packs more punch at greater distances with JHP bullets.