What's so super about 38 super?
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shovelwrench
Member
We could just turn this into a picture thread....
I mean really, how many .38 supers do you actually see??
That is as long as its ok with the OP.
bmcgilvray
Member
I like the notion of the .38 Super and hope to obtain one some day. It appears to be all that the 9mm is cracked up to be but isn't.
In Michael Mann's "Public Enemies" I understand he wouldn't have minded a few .38 Super Thompsons and 1911s, but alas, .45 blanks were the only thing available and a .38 Super Thompson is rather rare.
Often in historical pictures of Texas Rangers with 1911s, it's assumed they have .45s but as likely as not they are .38 Supers.
The cartridge was developed around 1928 at the request of law enforcement agencies who used the .45 but wanted something with more
punch when it came to car steel, vests. However, just an aside, at the same time, the .38 Special also was souped up and it became the .38/44
for heavy framed revolvers.
Supposedly Johnny Dilliger favored the .38 Super in Thompsons and 1911s.
The 9mm Luger as conceived by Georg Luger was no slouch, with a flat point and speeds exceeding 1200 fps. His Luger pistol operated nicely with those hot rounds but people who have sometimes tried to use more modern 9mms find the Luger jams. Another point about the 9mm, is Illinois State Police at one time carried +P+ 9mm, probably going around 1300 fps and reports are that one-shot stops were common. The U.S. Navy tested the "Luger" rounds sometime in the '80s and found that just flat-pointing a hot 9mm gave it excellent terminal ballistics.
All of this, of course, is challengeable by others who have read or know better. I'm not pontificating.
Often in historical pictures of Texas Rangers with 1911s, it's assumed they have .45s but as likely as not they are .38 Supers.
The cartridge was developed around 1928 at the request of law enforcement agencies who used the .45 but wanted something with more
punch when it came to car steel, vests. However, just an aside, at the same time, the .38 Special also was souped up and it became the .38/44
for heavy framed revolvers.
Supposedly Johnny Dilliger favored the .38 Super in Thompsons and 1911s.
The 9mm Luger as conceived by Georg Luger was no slouch, with a flat point and speeds exceeding 1200 fps. His Luger pistol operated nicely with those hot rounds but people who have sometimes tried to use more modern 9mms find the Luger jams. Another point about the 9mm, is Illinois State Police at one time carried +P+ 9mm, probably going around 1300 fps and reports are that one-shot stops were common. The U.S. Navy tested the "Luger" rounds sometime in the '80s and found that just flat-pointing a hot 9mm gave it excellent terminal ballistics.
All of this, of course, is challengeable by others who have read or know better. I'm not pontificating.
shovelwrench
Member
I'd like to se a .38 super Thompson, probably walks up a lot less then the .45 smg's I've shot, though I never heard of one in Super. As for 1300fps, the Super yawns at that
Reloader Fred
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There were several agencies shooting the 9x19 +P+ ammunition. The BLM Rangers used it in their Sigs, but it battered them too badly. It was the U.S. Air Force who experimented with the flat point bullet in the 9x19, but it wouldn't feed reliably through all NATO firearms, so they stuck with the NATO RN profile for reliability.
The .38 Super is a supurb round with today's powders, bullets and firearms. Mine are way more accurate than they have a right to be.
Hope this helps.
Fred
The .38 Super is a supurb round with today's powders, bullets and firearms. Mine are way more accurate than they have a right to be.
Hope this helps.
Fred
OP
alphabrace
Member
I would love to see more pics...
Grayfox
US Veteran
I don't claim any expertize on the .38 Super, but I did pick up a Colt Government Model in the caliber about a year ago. I like it!
Also bear in mind that I've never been a particularly big fan of the 9mm. So for this round to impress me it took a lot. Recoil is easily managable and accuracy is absolutely outstanding. The added velocity over the 9mm is a bonus.
BTW: in these ammo shortage times, I've had no problems finding factory ammo, brass or bullets for the .38 Super. Although brass is a bit expensive.
I like it enough that I've added a Commander sized 1911 in this caliber to my wish list.
Also bear in mind that I've never been a particularly big fan of the 9mm. So for this round to impress me it took a lot. Recoil is easily managable and accuracy is absolutely outstanding. The added velocity over the 9mm is a bonus.
BTW: in these ammo shortage times, I've had no problems finding factory ammo, brass or bullets for the .38 Super. Although brass is a bit expensive.
I like it enough that I've added a Commander sized 1911 in this caliber to my wish list.
george minze
Member
To come across a 38 super steel commander would be a dream come true. Having the money to buy it would be a better dream come true. They seemed to fit the bill on almost every occasion. They just shot better than anything else. On another thread they talked about Pythons. How the trigger staged etc, but like they old saying goes "you get what you pay for" I was always a Smith man when it can to revolvers, but nothing locked up like a Python and the finish was second to none. Back to the super I always thought the Smith Mod 52 would have been a great platform for the 38 super. Their 52 bulls eye gun would have made a great start. Of course then police used revolvers for duty. The older Combat masterpiece was a thing of beauty but still the finish wasn't as good as Colts. to bad Smith ignored the 38super I think they would still be popular. A model 52 in 38super would be a thing of legend. Or a steel 39 in super????Old timers rambling of things that should have been. IMO
shovelwrench
Member
Brass is actually slightly less expensive then .45 of the same brand. However, I only checked Starline, simply because, if I buy new brass, I buy the best I can get...
shovelwrench
Member
Heres Mine
Kimber Pro Carry HD
Custom home build Fusion 6" wearing Ford's hard chrome, black nickel small parts.
Kimber Pro Carry HD
Custom home build Fusion 6" wearing Ford's hard chrome, black nickel small parts.
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Center Villian
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Very Cool
Man I am lovin' that custom longslide. That gun has been on my wish list for a long time. Thanks for sharing those pics.
Sammy
Man I am lovin' that custom longslide. That gun has been on my wish list for a long time. Thanks for sharing those pics.
Sammy
OP
alphabrace
Member
flat trajectory
How much flatter is a 38 super over the other the 9, 40 and 45 at 25 yards? I guess I am asking for trajectory curves? BTW nice pics shovelwrench of a couple of real keepers!
How much flatter is a 38 super over the other the 9, 40 and 45 at 25 yards? I guess I am asking for trajectory curves? BTW nice pics shovelwrench of a couple of real keepers!
Tom M
Member
What's not to like? Since I got these, I haven't even fired a .45 caliber 1911.
shovelwrench
Member
Thanks for the kind words.
Trajectory, is a factor of velocity. The flatter you want a bullet to go, the faster it has to go. Look at it as time in the air, the more time spent in the air, the farther a bullet drops.
A 115gr will go over 1600fps from a super, 9mm is 400fps slower with the same bullet. 40, 45 go substantially slower yet.
action pistol round
at my club, the race gun guys are split about 50-50 between .45acp and .38 Super, all handloaded with dialed down loads and lightened slides, compensation, softer springs, optics, etc, the usual race gun goodies.
at my club, the race gun guys are split about 50-50 between .45acp and .38 Super, all handloaded with dialed down loads and lightened slides, compensation, softer springs, optics, etc, the usual race gun goodies.
Spotteddog
Member
Alpha,
Generic trajectory numbers are available from all the major manufacturers web sites out to 50 yards. Just be aware, some will use a "test barrel", some may/or may not use an actual weapon for their spec's. And still others may use a different barrel length?
Cartridge Comparisons
Generic trajectory numbers are available from all the major manufacturers web sites out to 50 yards. Just be aware, some will use a "test barrel", some may/or may not use an actual weapon for their spec's. And still others may use a different barrel length?
Cartridge Comparisons
I know it is a popular pistol in Mexico. Something about not having larger caliber than the military made them available and they are still popular. Reading Mexican newspapers it seems that besides the usual "cuerno de chivo" 38 Super seems to be a popular gun in Mexico.
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BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Dick Metcalf wrote in SHOOTING TIMES magazine that he shot .38 Super ammunition in his Model 52-2 with no modifications and it ran just fine.
My only current .38 Super is actually a dual-caliber conversion. I bought a new Colt Government Model in 9X23 Winchester some years back. The .38 Super and 9X23 are dimensionally very close. I bought a new .38 Super barrel and fitted bushing and recoil spring and they run great in the 9X23 gun. Uses the same magazines.
Actually, the 9X23 Winchester, from the factory, is ballistically what folks are usually trying to handload the .38 Super into.
My only current .38 Super is actually a dual-caliber conversion. I bought a new Colt Government Model in 9X23 Winchester some years back. The .38 Super and 9X23 are dimensionally very close. I bought a new .38 Super barrel and fitted bushing and recoil spring and they run great in the 9X23 gun. Uses the same magazines.
Actually, the 9X23 Winchester, from the factory, is ballistically what folks are usually trying to handload the .38 Super into.
shovelwrench
Member
What I find funny is the 9x23 and the .38 super are only .006 different in case length.???
