When a Timing Issue is Kinda Not a Timing Issue

[DocBernard]

First, thank you all for ID'ing my 1903 .32Long Hand Ejector.


As mentioned in my first post, I had a timing issue, that now that I have gone through it, it's kinda an issue but kinda not.


When I pull the trigger in double action, there is no timing issue. The cylinder locks up perfectly. But when I use it in single action, the timing issue is present and the cylinder needs to be advanced about a degree or two to lock the cylinder in alignment.


Thoughts?



On a side note, I wasn't happy with the blue job I started with, so I mixed up some ferrobronze solution and went to town on it. Remember, this was a 100.00 piece of junk as you remember from my earlier post and I bought it specifically to practice different techniques on. I think it came out pretty nice and almost new looking. Sure I may have destroyed the collector's value but, I wasn't going for that "restoration" look. I wanted to completely refinish it. Tell me what y'all think:

 

[ken158]

Try single action with empty brass in the cylinder to increase momentum. I suspect you are not cocking with any authority and just easing the hammer back since you say it times ok in DA.

 

[DocBernard]

Try single action with empty brass in the cylinder to increase momentum. I suspect you are not cocking with any authority and just easing the hammer back since you say it times ok in DA.

Can't believe I didn't think about that.......it makes sense.

 

[ACORN]

If it locks up with a "smart" SA cocking with loaded ammo, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Baxter6551]

I for one thinks the finish looks great !!

 

[2152hq]

In DA, does the cylinder 'lock' BEFORE the hammer drops?
Or does the hammer drop and then you are checking the cylinder and it feels locked in position.?

The cylinder should lock (cylinder bolt drop into the slot in the cylinder surface) and lock the cylinder in place just before the hammer drops from the DA position.

As well,,,the cylinder should do the same in locking up just befor the hammer cocks in SA mode.,,just before the hammer and trigger engage to cock the trigger and hold it in SA position, you should be able to even hear the cylinder bolt drop/click into the slot in the cylinder.

Try both and see if they are doing so.
They may both show to be out of time and that would be common.
Then the Hand would be suspect. But many other things need to be checked and tighted if needed before jumping to the Hand for help in pushing the cylinder a few more degrees in rotation.

Checking timing should be done with very slow hammer motion, trigger pull and cylinder rotation.
Using the cylinders centrifical force with rapid rotation to help it spin and seem to be in time is just that

 

[otis24]

The finish looks good to me!

 

[steelslaver]

The very first thing I check when I have a carry up problem is end shake. It is easy to take care of may help slow carry up. Empty brass in cylinder may also help, but not by increasing cylinder mass, but by holding the extractor more firmly aligned than just the 2 small pins. Then the next question is is it slow on every cylinder or all of them. Just one or 2 can be taken care of by peening cylinder. It works well

But, I while I want my guns to carry up even with very slow cocking, I also don't quite understand the big deal if the gun always locks up using normal cocking or DA speeds. It isn't like you go to the range, hunt or get into gunfights and ever so slowly cock your gun. When I am using mine I either cock them or pull the trigger as smoothly as possible while trying to keep sights alighted. Ya, if you basically stage your trigger using double action, it can cause a problem, but then in reality you are not using double action for what it was designed for nor what your actually training for. It is only a good method to increase your scores if your not actually a good DA shooter.

 

[2152hq]

...I also don't quite understand the big deal if the gun always locks up using normal cocking or DA speeds. ....."

If the gun locks up using 'normal cocking (SA) and DA trigger motions,,thats OK.
But the question of wether the action is actually 'in time' can only be answered with a yes or no when the action is functioned slowly.
If the cylinder bolt drops into place and locks the cylinder before the hammer cocks in SA or the hammer drops in DA,,then the action is 'in time'.

If you cock the action with some speed and it spins the cylinder aggresively and so it runs itself into position and locks instead of the Hand pushing on the Ratchet moving the cylinder into position to be locked as designed to do,,then it's not in time.

If a pump shot gun has to worked aggresively to feed a round because the carrier & cam is worn and won't lift it soon enough or high enough to feed correctly in normal operation,,then that gun is 'out of time'.

But maybe,,sometimes,,with that little bit of extra effort on the forward shuck on the pump handle,,it sure as hell feeds pretty good every time.
Yes it does,,but it's still 'out of time', likely wear and needs repair/rebuild to make it right.

Many will be just fine with the revolver as it is and the pump gun as it is as well.
They work, just cock the hammer a bit faster,,pump the handle a little more aggresively,,they work OK.

Don't fix it if it doesn't matter to you,,just a waste of time and money.


FWIW I shoot DA both staged and not. I find both methods of value and shot Bullseye w/revolver (.22 & 38sp) for many yrs in the 1970's and 80's using DA only Slow,Timed and Rapid.
No 300 shooter for sure,,but mid 280's and sometimes low 290's when everything was going right.
Try the 50yd slow fire in DA.

Obviously not a competitive score range, but fun. Pre-Mod17 & pre-Mod18 and sometimes a 38-44HD.