When is 158 gr. .38 Special definitely NOT +P

[bushmaster1313]

My factory practice rounds in 158 grain .38 Special reports 770 fps muzzle velocity on the box.

This is not +P, right?

What is the muzzle velocity when a 158 gr .38 Special approaches +P ?

Any idea what the Maximum PSI is for 158 grain Federal American Eagle AE38B .38 Special

 

[hkcavalier]

158gr +P will usually run 900-1000fps out of standard length barrels. I have seen 1100-1250fps advertised, but I'm not sure how this is possible since this is .357 territory.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Current factory standard for a 158 gr +P specification is a nominal 890-900 fps out of a 4" vented test barrel to simulate something like a Model 10. I tested 1977 and 2007 production Remington 158 gr +P lead loads (LRN in the earlier / L-SWC-HP in the later) in my 6" 1942 production Colt Official Police Heavy Barrel and they were both just under 1000 fps (like 997) and averaged just 3 fps different despite the 30 year age variation.

 

[Alk8944]

.38 Special +P factory loads will be clearly identified as +P both on the exterior of the box and by the notation +P being included in the headstamp. If there is neither the notice on the box nor the headstamp then the ammunition is standard pressure. Please note this applies only to commercial factory loaded ammunition still in the original packaging. There is no way to know what loose ammunition is loaded to. It is not good practice to shoot any ammunition that you do not know the source of, ever.

Quote: Added "Any idea what the Maximum PSI is for 158 grain Federal American Eagle AE38B .38 Special.

This is a standard pressure load. SAAMI maximum pressure for non +p .38 Special is 17,000 PSI, so it will be something less that this.

SAAMI Maximum pressure for .38 Special +P is 20,000.

These figures apply to ammunition from any manufacturer that adheres to SAAMI standards. so you don't need to ask again for this caliber from anywhere. European CIP pressure standards are slightly higher, but not enough to be of any concern.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Thanks for the above.
My Federal AE38B, which is pleasant to shoot from an N frame, is not marked +P and looks like a good candidate for a 38 Special J frame and a Detective Special at the range.

 

[rockquarry]

Just for reference, I chronographed some Federal 158 gr. lead SWC HP +P loads a couple of days ago.

S&W Model 14, 6" barrel = 972 fps
S&W Model 15, 4" barrel = 935 fps

I don't know what Federal's published figures are for this load.

 

[rwsmith]

17,500 psi is max.....

...for any .38 Special loading. What length barrel are you shooting them out of? The problem I have is that many +P loadings are watered down. Used to be even people at the range used to comment when I was shooting +Ps. Now even I can only notice a small increase in power.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

My factory practice rounds in 158 grain .38 Special reports 770 fps muzzle velocity on the box ...

I am a reloader and the Speer Reloading Manual had a good Article that explains why two identical S&W Model 19 four inch revolvers can have significantly different velocity readings shooting identical ammunition.

Don't over think numbers. Results on the Target is what is important.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

Thanks for the above.
My Federal AE38B, which is pleasant to shoot from an N frame, is not marked +P and looks like a good candidate for a 38 Special J frame and a Detective Special at the range.

That's a pretty mild load. It's what I have in the speedloader and speed strip when I carry my M49, backing up the wadcutters in the gun. There's not much difference in perceived recoil between that load and the Remington wadcutters that run ~680 fps from that gun.

 

[rwsmith]

"Why Ballisticians Get Grey"....

I am a reloader and the Speer Reloading Manual had a good Article that explains why two identical S&W Model 19 four inch revolvers can have significantly different velocity readings shooting identical ammunition.

Don't over think numbers. Results on the Target is what is important.

That's a great article. They shoot all types of guns, many of the same make, model and barrel length and table they generate is huge. And the result vary widely. The only concern I have, though, is that JHP bulllets need a certain range of velocities to expand consistently. As long as makes that velocity, I'm good with them. With most ammo you can find tests on line.

 

[Dave Lively]

I have seen 1100-1250fps advertised, but I'm not sure how this is possible since this is .357 territory.

It's possible if you go well over the SAAMI pressure specs but still call it 38 +P.

A couple of years ago someone on the castboolits forum that has a system for pressure testing used it to test both Underwood and BuffaloBore 158 grain 38 Special +P ammo. They came in at 28,400 and 28,500 PSI. The SAAMI spec for standard pressure is 17,500 and +P is 20,600. The spec for 357 Magnum is 35,000.

If something sounds too good to be true it almost always is.

Independent pressure test of Underwood and BuffaloBore ammo.

SAAMI pressure specs.

 

[hkcavalier]

It's possible if you go well over the SAAMI pressure specs but still call it 38 +P.

A couple of years ago someone on the castboolits forum that has a system for pressure testing used it to test both Underwood and BuffaloBore 158 grain 38 Special +P ammo. They came in at 28,400 and 28,500 PSI. The SAAMI spec for standard pressure is 17,500 and +P is 20,600. The spec for 357 Magnum is 35,000.

If something sounds too good to be true it almost always is.

Independent pressure test of Underwood and BuffaloBore ammo.

SAAMI pressure specs.

Well then they should market it as +P+. Being 8k over an actual SAAMI spec seems wrong.

 

[rockquarry]

Well then they should market it as +P+. Being 8k over an actual SAAMI spec seems wrong.

Before the +P designation in the early '70s, Norma had the hottest .38 Special load (110 grain) averaging around 28,000, followed by Remington (125 grain) at about 25,000. Super Vel (110 grain) was a distant third at 19,000 or 20,000. That's all from memory but I think the figures are reasonably accurate.

 

[bushmaster1313]

My self defense plan centers on having available a reliable handgun that I have practiced with and to have it loaded with factory ammunition that is not of the “lite” variety. Having the “best” weapon with the hottest ammo is not part of my planning.

 

[bushmaster1313]

I New Jersey we are not allowed hollow point outside the home except at the range. We are allowed the Hornady critical defense which has a polymer filled tip.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Actually a 158 LSWCHP in a J frame snub nose can be a +P with just 820fps with a certain powder.

It does not need to reach over 1,00 fps to be a +P load, depending on the
type of revolver that the load is fired from.

As for when is it over +P;

that is when your revolvers top strap is sticking into your outdoor range's roof !!

 

[hkcavalier]

DOES BBA MAKE AMMO TO SAAMI SPECIFICATIONS?

Some of our loads do not have SAAMI standards. Loads such as 45 Colt+P, 9MM+P+, 45-70+P, 45 Super, 460 Rowland and there are many, many more, even though loading manuals produced by all the big bullet and powder manufacturers include data for creating such loads. If SAAMI does not even recognize such loads exist, then it would be impossible to make factory ammo that is SAAMI compliant for those loads.

However, our loads like 9MM, 9MM+P, 45 acp, 45 acp+P, 40 S&W, 380 auto, etc., etc., etc. are all SAAMI



Tells me all i kneed to know

Except .38 Special +P has a current SAAMI MAP. I like BB ammo, but looks like they're dodging one of the (if not THE) most popular +Ps on their list.