Where are the 619's and 620's?

[stantheman86]

Did S&W discontinue these?

I am about to buy a 64-8 from my dealer and I was going to try to order a 619, but I didn't see them in the S&W catalog.

This is probably the neatest revolver I have ever seen (to me anyway), I'm a fixed sight .357 revolver fanatic, and as soon as I saw this with it's 7-round cylinder I wanted one BAD!

 

[scooter123]

The way I look at it, S&W doesn't discontinue models, they simply suspend production until enough demand builds up for them to start up another run. I'm a fan of the 610 and it's been OFF then ON three times that I'm aware of.

So, IMO they are taking a break on the 619 and 620 and at some point they'll be back in the catalog, hopefully with the 2 piece barrels. I have a 620 and the accuracy this type of barrel can produce is stunning.

 

[Stainz]

About that 64-8... mine was a NIB unissued security guard trade-in bought two years ago for $315 OTD. Terrible purchase. Jaded my buying ever since. Should have bought several! Seriously, it was bought as a house gun. Most of it's first year, it was in my range bag... with wood grips. June/09 and back on with the OEM UM's Combats - back to HD duties.

It does still sneak it's way to the range - I had to clean it Friday. It is a fun plinker - and perfect choice for defending the homestead, stoked with those Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWC's. Of course, my favorite .38/.357 plinker is a 627 Pro - fantastic - beats the poop out of my 5" h-l 686P, that's for sure.

How did I end up with a 627 Pro 5/08? I went in to buy a 620... and they were out. It went on plastic - had to have it. Before the plastic bill arrived, I had sold some Rugers to pay for it - best move ever. I haven't seen a 620 since, although a Bass Pro Shop near here had a 619 for $519 earlier this year - nothing since then. They must be gone - for a while. Supposedly, the 64 was for a bit - something about that two-piece barrel and low demand. Mine is great.

Stainz

 

[stantheman86]

I was pretty much in the same boat, I got a LNIB security trade in but mine is a 64-7. It's a great gun, like you I wish I had gotten 2 or 3 more of them while the dealer was selling them for $350 a piece!

I had read all the "bad press" on the MIM IL guns, but there ain't nothing wrong with this one at all!

I also got rid of the Uncle Mikes grips in favor of some new Magnas I had laying aroung from an 80's era Model 66.

I'm about to get the 64-8, I had been a Model 10 fan for a long time, but I'm starting to develop a love for the stainless guns these days, and I'm trying to build up my 64 collection.I figured I would get in on a 64-8 before S&W decides to "take a break" from these too!

I'll have to see if my dealer can place an order for a 619 or a 620 and just see what happens, maybe I can get in the "queue" for orders and when S&W decides to crank a few out I can get one.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

619

I know this thread is a bit old, but would like to try to revive it a bit. I'd like to hear some feedback from 619/620 owners, and here's why:

I live in Germany and have a sport shooter's license and hunting license. The old German hunters (a traditional, old world gang) that I hunt with really prefer to carry revolvers for wild boar for "finishing shots", or in case the boar are still alive and charge you when you go to recover it (it happens, and a large, wounded German boar can kill or maim you seriously). I didn't want to spend a fortune on a "backup" weapon as I have spent plenty on the rifle portion of my hunting pursuit here. A local German dealer near me had a great deal on new 619s, about $420 or so given the euro/dollar conversion rate of the day, and I bought one. I just received it yesterday, and I have to say it is the finest balanced, smoothest trigger pull, tightest lockup of any revolver I have ever owned, and I've owned many (Colt, Ruger, Dan Wesson, S&W, Arminius, H&R, to name a few). I've had nothing but auto's for a few years, but have come back home, and happily I might add. I did not care for the UM rubber grips and put some custom silver/black laminates on it, and I love it even more. I'm curious to know why S&W seems to have dropped this and the 620, as I think this 619 is excellent in quality, although I have not fired it yet. If it's marketing, then I could care less; it matters little to me if I have an "unpopular" weapon, however if there's a real negative reason why the seem to have left the market, I'd be curious to know why. I have always liked the balance and feel of the Model 10, 4" heavy barrel design (enough so that I have a Model 547 in that configuration) and the 619 seems like an updated SS, .357 capable variation of that to me really fits the bill. Comments, information and opinions?

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Here is a 619 and a 681, put the 7 shot cylinder in the 681 and a 6 shot moon clip cylinder in the 619.

 

[andyo5]

I had a 620 for awhile, and sold it.
It was so light weight that extended shooting with full or near full power magnums wore a blister on the web of my hand. Even a shooting glove would not prevent this. I couldn't shoot for 2 months until my hand healed, or I would have reinjured it.
For my purposes, it would be a gun to carry alot but shoot a little, unless you are shooting .38s or lower power magnum loads.
I have a 4" and a 6" 686 that suit me better.

 

[scooter123]

I had a 620 for awhile, and sold it.
It was so light weight that extended shooting with full or near full power magnums wore a blister on the web of my hand. Even a shooting glove would not prevent this. I couldn't shoot for 2 months until my hand healed, or I would have reinjured it.
For my purposes, it would be a gun to carry alot but shoot a little, unless you are shooting .38s or lower power magnum loads.
I have a 4" and a 6" 686 that suit me better.

The 4 inch 620 and 4 inch 686 are within 1/10 ounce in weight, so I suspect that you've confused the 620 with another model, perhaps the 386.

I initially purchased my 620 for two reasons.

One is that I think full lug barrels are ugly. Note, I have a 617 and 610 with full lug barrels and constantly have to resist the urge to chuck them up in a vertical mill and re-profile the barrel. The only thing that keeps me from doing this is the knowledge that forged steels that haven't been stress relieved will move quite a bit if you remove material from one side.

The second is that I was a huge fan of the Dan Wesson revolvers back in the 70's and 80's. Couldn't afford one but sure wanted one and read every article written about the expectional accuracy of these tensioned barrel revolvers. When I found I could afford a new revolver, the 620 was as close as I could get.

Do NOT regret my choice one bit. I've installed a J Point Reflex sight on my 620 and have spent a good bit of time tuning the lockwork and sighting it in from a benchrest. With the reflex sight and the right ammo, a 1.75 inch 7 shot group at 35 yards is routine from a sandbag rest. I've also had occasional 5 shot groups under 3/4 inch before flyers spoiled the group. One of these days I may get myself a handgun scope and do a bit of testing to see just how small a group I can get with the aid of some magnification. I have a hunch that it's capable of 1/2 inch or less with the right ammo at 35 yards.

Sum it up and the 620 is a very good looking gun that is one of the most accurate 38/357 caliber revolvers that S&W ever produced. Now that it's been discontinued, anyone wanting accuracy at this level will spend much more and purchase either the M&P R8 or the 327 TRR8, both of which also feature tensioned barrels.

PS, last time at the range finished up with some speed drills in double action at 30 feet. Put 14 rounds into a 2 1/4 inch group. Just love that reflex sight, means that this old fart who can't see iron sights anymore can still shoot with the youngsters.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

619/620

Scooter,

I concur with your comments, but guess I could take your aversion to full shrouds one step further. I have always liked the traditional look and balance of the old Model 10 style heavy barrel, with no shroud at all, although I understand the possible necassity of at least some shroud around the extractor rod to protect it. I had to think long and hard between the 619 and 620, but availability and cost sold me in the end (I live in Germany and the dealer only had 619s). However, I finally realized that the 619 fit the bill exactly for me. Handguns cannot be purchased for self-defense here, but can be for sport shooting and "finishing shots" for animals. I wanted a suitable .357/.38 for wild boar, as they can be ferocious when wounded and a fixed sight revolver was perfect for a quick draw, close range power for such an episode. I love this 619, with it's "Model 10" look and feel. Back in the Continental US, I have a Model 10 and a Model 547 and so have completed my .38 inch trio collection! I'm glad to hear your comments about the 620 (and hope your earlier comments about production are correct), if I can find one or if S&W starts making them again, I plan on gettting one to "round out" the collection. I've heard some interesting things about accuracy for the 619 and 620 and can't wait to get mine to the range. Any suggestions for loads? I think whatever is good for the self-defense range will work for German Wild Boar at close ranges, and I don't care about recoil, muzzle blast and all those things that seem to annoy others; none of that bothers me much. Strangely, I can get most US made JHP, X-panders and such here in Germany (wasn't always that way, though).

 

[Tom 38]

I agree with Scooter too. I bought a 620 a couple year ago and really like it. I like it so much that I bought a 617 in a 4 inch to go along with it. They are both great shooters.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I thought they had some severe problems with the two part barrels and that was the reason for the drop from production. Demand never seemed to be that great and in the 620 vs. 686 debate there always felt to me to be more 686 fans flaming the sales. I never did hear if the problem extended into the alloy frame models but they are still in production while the 619/620’s are not. I had thought about getting a 619 just for a stainless M&P look alike that would also be in .537 but by the time I saved up enough they were gone. My biggest guess is that the sales difference in the 686 just makes more financial sense to them for full production. It would be much more interesting if they had the ability to fine tune the barrel to cylinder gap like the Dan Wesson’s did. I think they had some method of doing this but it was nowhere near as easy or convenient like the Dan Wesson’s were.

 

[andyo5]

The 4 inch 620 and 4 inch 686 are within 1/10 ounce in weight, so I suspect that you've confused the 620 with another model, perhaps the 386.

Actually, the 620 was listed at 37.5 ounces, while the current four-inch 686 is listed at 39.7 ounces. That's 2.2 ounces, not 1/10 ounce. And the extra weight is placed out on the barrel due to the full underlug of the 686. After all, recoil control is what full underlugs are for.
No confusion on my part.

 

[scooter123]

When I purchase my 620 the listed weight was 38.1 ounces, at the same time the 4 inch 686 was listed at 38.2 ounces. Frankly, with the variation of listed versus actual weight, I'm not surprized that the listed weights you have are different than mine. As I have found out, the grips actually sold with the gun can add a lot of variation.

I'll also note that I've installed the grips for the 500 Magnum on my 620. Just two cylinders of 357 Magnum with the Hogues it shipped with was all it took to start me looking for a more comfortable grip. Good news is that my hands are large enough the 500 Magnum grips fit me well and they really help to increase control and take the sting out of shooting the Magnum.

As for the full underlug, while it may help reduce muzzle flip that increase in swing weight slows returning to target. If you look at the full history of revolvers when they were the primary choice for a Combat handgun one thing stands out. That is that almost every single one featured a low mass barrel. Take a look at the old Colt Official Police or the S&W M&P, both had slender light weight barrels. IMO the reason was simple, a gun that is slow to point can get you killed. If you're interested in actually seeing the effect, try running some speed drills with some 38 spl. in a side by side test using a tapered barrel model 15 or 67 and a 4 inch 686. My experience is that you'll shoot tighter groups with the lighter barrel if the split times are held equal.

Finally, while it's a matter of taste, I think that full underlugs are ugly. IMO the prettiest revolver I own is my tapered barrel model 67, second place goes to the 620.

 

[andyo5]

When I purchase my 620 the listed weight was 38.1 ounces, at the same time the 4 inch 686 was listed at 38.2 ounces. Frankly, with the variation of listed versus actual weight, I'm not surprized that the listed weights you have are different than mine. As I have found out, the grips actually sold with the gun can add a lot of variation.

I'll also note that I've installed the grips for the 500 Magnum on my 620. Just two cylinders of 357 Magnum with the Hogues it shipped with was all it took to start me looking for a more comfortable grip. Good news is that my hands are large enough the 500 Magnum grips fit me well and they really help to increase control and take the sting out of shooting the Magnum.

As for the full underlug, while it may help reduce muzzle flip that increase in swing weight slows returning to target. If you look at the full history of revolvers when they were the primary choice for a Combat handgun one thing stands out. That is that almost every single one featured a low mass barrel. Take a look at the old Colt Official Police or the S&W M&P, both had slender light weight barrels. IMO the reason was simple, a gun that is slow to point can get you killed. If you're interested in actually seeing the effect, try running some speed drills with some 38 spl. in a side by side test using a tapered barrel model 15 or 67 and a 4 inch 686. My experience is that you'll shoot tighter groups with the lighter barrel if the split times are held equal.

Finally, while it's a matter of taste, I think that full underlugs are ugly. IMO the prettiest revolver I own is my tapered barrel model 67, second place goes to the 620.

Scooter, I also tried the 500 style grip with the model 620, but it was too big for my hand. Had I kept the 620, I would have been forced to shoot 38s in it or not shoot it at all. I had it for fun, not as a carry gun.
I agree that full underlugs are less appealing to look at. But it is surprising how much a bit of weight out on the end can make a difference in shootability. Example: S&W has varied the weight of the M625 45 Colt Mountain Gun from 39 ounces to 36.5 ounces. My first one was the more recent, lighter version with the shorter front sight platform. I found it unpleasent to shoot and sold it. I then discovered the older, heavier version (M625-6) with more 'meat' under the front sight. I bought this one on GunBroker and shoot it alot. Same grips as the first one I had.
My 4" 686 no dash is a square butt, so it may weigh even more than the current version.

 

[Dale53]

I don't have a 619/620 but I DO have both a 686 (CS-1) and a 520 (pictured here). Frankly, I like BOTH of them. I have enjoyed ownership fo the 686 since they first hit the market but the 520 is a recent acquisition. As you can see by the silhouette target (shot standing at 25 yards) I AM able to shoot the 520 well.

Certainly you may prefer one over the other, but putting down either doesn't really "get it" for me.

These are both FINE revolvers...

Dale53

 

[Maximumbob54]

I didn’t even know they made a 520. That is one fine looking revolver with that Ahrends grip on it and the red dot on top.

I have held in my hand a 620 several years ago and with the heavy barrel profile I thought it would be a bit more forgiving in recoil than is being said here. Even with the 686’s full underlug I wouldn’t think it would be much different than a heavy barrel would be. But that is just supposition on my part.

How well does the 500’s X/N frame grip fit on a K/L frame??? I would have thought the larger area on the top of the X/N frames would leave a large gap??? If I’m wrong then I’m wrong.

 

[Cary]

Another M620 owner here. I've had mine for right at five years and don't plan to ever part with it. It fits what I want well. I think the M620 received a lot of flaming because of several reasons which have not bothered me any.

1. MIM parts
2. Two piece barrel
3. Internal lock.

Every person is entitled to their own opinion but there were those who could not get past these features of the M620/M619 and thus the flaming. I think the gun received a bad rep because of it.
Cary

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Here's my very informal range report for my recently purchased 619. I have to start off with mentioning that this morning, before loading up for the range, I shut my strong hand trigger finger in my wife's car door, and so discounted all grouping or accuracy determinations. I decided to turn my range experience into mostly a funtional test. I fired about one hundred 158 grain semi-jacketed soft points and one hundred .38 special FMJ flat nose (that was the only .38 available). In between some loadings, I actuated the IL, to see if I could induce a malfuntion. I fired one handed left, right and two handed both left and right, single and double action. I could not fire double action right handed due to my unfortunate little mishap. All rounds fired were at fifteen meters. When concentrating and firing single action, I beleive I was able to place a cylinder of ammuntion withing a four inch circle or so. There were no malfunctions, no issues with the IL and the barrel seemed to stay attached to the frame, although I know the haters of two peice barrels won't believe that. The IL is a handy item here in Germany, as your firearm must be locked in someway when transporting and this is adequate, and since it seems to function with no problem, it's actally an asset. I was absolutely amazed at the recoil, or actually, the lack of recoil this 619 produced, even with 158 grain SJSPs, the load which I will use for wildboar and finishing shots when required. I removed the Uncle Mike's grips on delivery and replaced them with rather thin laminated wood grips. I can only think that the rubber grips would make the recoil even better. In .38 Spl, the recoil was so light, that when concentrating, I was able to keep the sights completely on target between firng. I allowed the range safety, who is also a fellow hunter and friend fire it once, and he couldn't get enough of it, he fired a whole box of .38. All my fears from reading all the negative comments about the 619/620 were completely dispelled, and I now have what I feel is the best revolver I have ever owned. For those interested in the 619/620 and for what it's worth, that is my experience and you know the old saying; "your mileage may vary", just thought someone out there might like to hear a positive comment for a change.

 

[Cary]

I'm glad to hear your positive report on the gun. The IL has also worked out fine with me as well (with all of the IL bashing I'm hesitant to write that). At this time I do not feel the need to have a loaded ready to fire gun in my house. I don't have a gun safe and all of my guns while at home are unloaded and secured with a lock and kept out of sight. There have been several incidents in our location of kids getting their hands on guns and either killing someone or wounding them accidentally. These have taken place in the last five years or so. We have several grand-kids that are at our house from time to time I wouldn't want that to happen with one of my guns or in my house. There may come a time when I will want a loaded gun readily at hand at my home but we aren't there yet. I left the factory grips on mine and I have had no problem with the recoil from this gun. I need to mention I reload and put together middle of the road loads for this gun. I shoot better with these loads and they are easier on the gun. The grips also fit my hand good. At this point this gun will probably out last me and be passed down to another family member after I'm gone. I have had zero issues with it and fits my intended use well.
Cary