Which Gun to Grab: 380? 9? 45?

[CA Escapee]

Please tell me you're just joking about this.

Sounds like he's taking Crazy Uncle Joe Biden's advice: "I said, Jill, if there's ever a problem just walk out on the balcony here ... put that double-barreled shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house," Biden said during an online question-and-answer session Tuesday. (2/19/13)

Bill

 

[Cal44]

Perhaps keep the 380 in your pocket when at home.

Then grab either the 9mm or the 45 acp if you have time when a problem comes up.

There are lots of cases where before you know anything is happening, the bad guys kick the front door open and rush in.

In that case, the only weapon you have is the one in your pocket.

The 380 is best for that.

 

[Smoke]

You honestly need proof that any of those bullets will stop an attacker if it hits them in a vital organ which would normally result in a fatal injury?

*sighs*

Nope, sorry... Not playing that game. If you want to believe that getting shot in a vital organ with a .380 ACP will somehow be less effective than it would be with any other cartridge, then you can go right on ahead.
I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove to you that getting shot in the brainstem, spine, heart, lungs, or any number of the major arteries tends to incapacitate/kill. Skeptics like you tend to continue arguing far past the point of reason, and it always results in pointless arguments in which the goal lines are repeatedly placed further and further down the field. I'd prove that getting shot in the brainstem with .380 ACP is fatal only to be met with responses asking me to prove that it will ALWAYS result in immediate incapacitation regardless of the circumstances or how absurd they may be, only for you to point out one specific extraordinary case in which somebody wasn't immediately incapacitated but remained upright for a whole 2.5 seconds which he could have totally used to lunge/stab or pull a trigger, ergo that means I'm wrong. Nevermind that such cases exist among all handgun cartridges, in the world of poorly-constructed internet arguments, you don't have to backup your end of the argument, merely show one-sided evidence to the contrary of their statements.

How about this? For once, YOU can prove ME wrong by citing your claims to the contrary. It should be easy to cherry pick a few articles in which the .380 failed to incapacitate someone anyway. Go for it.

I'm not the one who made the claim, I'm the one who asked you to back up your claim.

You very specifically claimed that

Shoot anyone in a vital organ with any of those firearms and the attacker will be instantly stopped.

You didn't say anything about "brain stems" you said a hit in a vital organ would INSTANTLY incapacitate and that's simply not true. There are any number of examples of criminals taking hits in vital organs and staying in the fight (Platt & Matix) in Miami Michael Platt continued to fight for almost 10 minutes after having his Brachial Artery severed, a lung punctured twice and his heart nicked by a 9mm Winchester Silvertip. He managed to kill 2 cops (including the one who shot him) and wound several others before being killed by multiple hits with a .38 including one to his spine.

"Instantly"

 

[Echo40]

Thank you for verifying my statement in regards to skeptics always resorting to pointing out extraordinary cases as evidence.

Seriously, it's remarkable how often folks site extraordinary cases which made headlines in the first place because they aren't at all common as evidence of the effectiveness of any given cartridge, especially when it renders their whole argument pointless like it does right here.
Yes, Platt & Matix did indeed take a lot of lead that day, including 9mm Luger, .357 Magnum, and even a bit of 12 Gauge buckshot, ergo the bit of evidence you used as an example would indicate that regardless of what the topic creator used, it would be completely ineffective.
Heck, what kind of point are you even trying to make here using the Miami 1986 Shootout as an example? I'm completely lost here. Did you even have a point or was this just your typical, argument for the sake of an argument that so often occurs online?

At any rate, most human beings stop attacking, voluntarily or otherwise after being shot in a vital organ. Anything outside of that is highly unusual occurrence which honestly shouldn't factor into preparation for any self-defense situation because it effectively dead-locks you.

That being said, sorry for the scene everyone, I'm just really tired of how you honestly can't say anything on firearms forums these days without someone coming along and starting a lazy argument with a single sentence, placing the burden of proof on the person who made the statement, and never yielding to any proof whatsoever because in reality they only started the argument in the first place to get attention/feign superiority.
In fact, I think I ought to take a break from firearms forums for awhile.

 

[Rustyt1953]

In fact, I think I ought to take a break from firearms forums for awhile.

I hope you don't as you are always a good read.

 

[Rastoff]

In fact, I think I ought to take a break from firearms forums for awhile.

I hope you don't either. I love that you participate. So many don't.

I too caught the "instantly" part of what you said, but as an adult who is capable of critical thinking, I understood what you meant. As for that, I agree, any of those calibers will do the same amount of stopping if they are placed in the appropriate place.

 

[Smoke]

Thank you for verifying my statement in regards to skeptics always resorting to pointing out extraordinary cases as evidence.

You don't by any chance own a pair of superlatively trained pit bulls do you?

My point is quite simple, you made an unqualified statement

Shoot anyone in a vital organ with any of those firearms and the attacker will be instantly stopped.

You even stated it as

At the end of the day, that is the one and only truth, the rest is merely conjecture.

I merely asked you to provide some data to support the statement. Which you have as yet failed to present.

Of course now I'm curious what makes Miami extraordinary. Matix wasn't high. He wasn't wearing body armor. He wasn't even the odd case he took what was considered to be one of the premier self defense rounds of the day in two vital organs and 1 major artery (plus several major non arterial vessels) and still stayed in the fight long enough to kill 2 FBI agents.

Here is the main point that I am trying to communicate; the only way you are going to "instantly" incapacitate anyone is to sever their spine or destroy their brain stem. Yes, such shots do happen but they are not the norm.

As Steven Crowder would say "change my mind".

 

[M29since14]

I'd take the one that I was most comfortable with, but I'm with Old Cop on this one. Before I would sit around in the dark for half an hour wondering what misfortune might be about to befall me, I'd be calling the cops. That's just too much sittin' around in the dark for me.

 

[smoothshooter]

The immediate question is, why wasn't the gun already loaded? Those actions and lost time could have cost you, well, more than you wanted. So, if you're going to use a gun for defense, keep it loaded.

We can talk about the choice of tool, handgun vs shotgun vs rifle vs Claymore, another time. In this case I really think the caliber is irrelevant. But here is what I would have picked; .45ACP. Why? Because I shoot it best. Yes, I can hit what I aim at with all of them, but if I'm best with the .45 when I'm not stressed, that's the one I can Guarantee the hit with when I am stressed.


Let's drift this just a little and talk about what you did right...
You didn't go searching. All too often people leave the relative safety of their barricaded position, inside the house, and go searching for the potential bad guy. This puts you at a significant disadvantage because then all they have to do is wait for you to come by and they get the jump on you. So, good for you to stay put.

You turned the lights off inside. This does two things for you; it alerts any potential bad guy that you're aware of them and it hides you from their vision.

You had motion activated lights outside. If there really was a bad guy, they would have been lit up and you would have been in the dark. This is a significant advantage for you. The one thing I would add to this security feature is the ability to manually turn them on from inside. This way you can light anything outside, moving or not. Again, this is an advantage for you and likely would end any encounter, animal or human, before it starts.

With the exception of the gun not being loaded already, you had a good action plan.

About 75 miles from where I live, a man and his wife were killed three nights ago when they went out to investigate some noise outside that turned out to be a couple of guys stealing their vehicles.
The homeowners probably made some tactical mistakes, as described above, by back-lighting themselves, making too much noise, etc., but I don't actually know too many details yet as the sheriff's dept. is keeping the details out of the news while the investigation is underway. Both perps have now been caught.
Initial reports used the word " gunfight ", which to me indicates bullets going both ways, when describing what led up to the murders.
Will be interesting to find out what actually happened.
The couple were very sociable church-people in their early fifties who were highly thought of by their neighbors and everyone who knew them.
Will post more when the final report is out. Could be a useful case study.

 

[smoothshooter]

I have a 44 spl with two speed strips that sit right above my head on my desk. I go outside it goes in my holster. I keep a Kimber 1911 45 acp in my night stand with one extra magazine. The 44 spl also goes on top of my night stand when I go to bed for the night.

Ever since I read about a Houston man that had a safe full of guns but didn't carry one got robbed by a kick in by armed robbers I make it a point to have a gun on me or reachable all the time while at home.

I would reccommend that you cover your nightstand gun with a towel, paper magazine, sock cap, or something so it is not in plain sight so that if someone gets in you bedroom unnoticed they don't kill you in your sleep with your own gun, in case they didn't bring one of their own.

 

[153]

I think the OP was just noting that with 3 different handguns available to him, in the "clinch" he grabbed the .45, I don't think he meant to start a "caliber war".

Even though his handle is "Redcoat" and his avatar a Union Jack, he grabbed the all-American .45. To that I say "Hoorah!"

If it were me I'd grab for this ...

 

[fredj338]

Shoot anyone in a vital organ with any of those firearms and the attacker will be instantly stopped.

Shoot anyone with any of those firearms and miss a vital organ and they may continue attacking if they are so inclined.

At the end of the day, that is the one and only truth, the rest is merely conjecture. Shot placement is what ultimately ends violent confrontations with determined attackers. Not caliber, not cartridge, not rhetoric, shot placement.

If carrying a bigger gun with higher capacity, a more powerful cartridge, or a bigger bullet makes you feel more confident due to whatever marginal percentage it may offer in specific unfavorable scenarios in which anything less could potentially fail, or otherwise are capable of doing so without it being an issue, then by all means carry it.
As for me, I'll continue carrying a single-stack .380 ACP pistol since that's what I'm confident, comfortable, and familiar with. If I could carry a .45 on me just as easily, then I wouldn't hesitate to do so, but right now that isn't an option.

Plenty of people have been shot thru vital organs & not only continue the fight but with quick medical response, survive. CNS hits are more likely to give instant stops, but even then, notging is 100%.

 

[Atonal]

380, 9 or 45? 357!!! ;-)

Glad it all turned out ok for you.

 

[Dogbone44Spl]

I really like the .45ACP, it's the only gun I ever had to use in anger. It worked well. That said I have a CZ 75B loaded with Federal 147 G HST's as my house gun. I want high capacity if dirt bags break down my front door.

 

[Rastoff]

About 75 miles from where I live, a man and his wife were killed three nights ago when they went out to investigate some noise outside that turned out to be a couple of guys stealing their vehicles.
...
Will post more when the final report is out. Could be a useful case study.

That will definitely be a useful case to study. It's unlikely that we'll find anything more than you already know. Their death and the lack of video makes learning anything about what they did, or their motives, very difficult.

Bright lights that can be turned on from inside and a rifle and this case would have had a different outcome.

 

[Grayfox]

Bigger holes are better.

 

[FAS1]

My point is how naturally I went for the biggest "stopper" bullet almost by reflex, but with a couple of nano-seconds of semi-logical thought. Sort of making me rethink my carry guns....as I rotate 380, 9, and 45 depending on what I'm wearing. (I've got a Smith 442 PC for pocket carry.)

This might interest you and others. I ran across it the other day. The results are probably not what you think.

 

[Whitwabit]

I would reccommend that you cover your nightstand gun with a towel, paper magazine, sock cap, or something so it is not in plain sight so that if someone gets in you bedroom unnoticed they don't kill you in your sleep with your own gun, in case they didn't bring one of their own.

In my case nothing laying over my carry when I take it off at night and lay it on the bedside table !!

No worry of someone picking it up and shooting me as they would have to get by a very unfriendly GSD that lays outside our bedroom door .. She would cause them to make so much noise my neighbors 1/2 mile away would be awake ..

 

[vipermd]

Could some one tell what are the non vital organs? BE Safe,

 

[joeintexas]

As much as I enjoy shooting my 9s when push comes to shove I feel more comfortable with something starting with a 4. I carry either a .40 s&w or a 45 acp. I know todays 9mm ammo is very capable but the larger calibers just give me more security. By the way, mine stay loaded.