Which Press?

[Moonman]

Listen to what Rule3 has said.

You can go to Brian Enos/Dillon site and he has an explanation of WHICH DILLON FOR YOU.

It has breakdowns on How Much and What you shoot per month to make a choice.

Some folks around here are serious competitive shooters and may reload 50,000 rounds a year for matches and practice.

50,000 rounds a year IS NOT CHEAP even if you do reload.

I load with RED, BLUE and GREEN Stuff Single-Stage, Progressive, Semi-Progressive.

One of the points about Dillon's are that resale prices can be 80-90% of the New Price.

NOT EVERYONE will find reloading to be comforting and rewarding, their attention span is not long enough.

You MUST STAY ALERT AND ATTENTIVE.

Don't RUSH, Do Your Homework, AND BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF IN YOUR ANSWERS.

 

[Duster340]

I agree with this advice , but would change one thing.

Hornady!



I own (and recommend) one Hornady LNL Classic press and two Hornady LNL AP presses.

Mopar...lol

 

[forestswin]

Kanew - I've been following these "which press" threads for awhile - and I think that unless money is of no concern then this is a needs and wants question along with spreadsheet/cost comparison study. All the follow-up questions and valid points members have given here - need to be answered to your satisfaction. That should narrow down the choices.

Dillon, Lee, RCBS, Hornady and Redding are all good and they each have distinct advantages over the others.

I'm a single stage guy and eventually will get a progressive but for me - cost will play a big factor - and it may end up - that over the long run a Mercedes may be cheaper than a Volkswagon

bluejax
now wait a minute - it was a turret guy who first left the "interested in a progressive press" guideline - not a single stage guy - and scooter first gave his opinion on a progressive before he prudently offered other important considerations

AND while Kanew's "interested in a progressive press" suggests that's the way he wants to go - the title of the thread is "Which Press" so us single stage guys have standing here.

 

[forestswin]

....
I believe the simpliest test is chamber a round and squeeze the target. I buy guns to shoot, not agconize over cleanliness, 0.00000x accuracy, or perfection. Shooting is a hobby not a religion. I reload ammo and cast bullets so I can SHOOT. My Dillon 450 upgraded to 550 has reloaded enough ammunition to successful wear out 3 barrels (TC 222 Rem, S&W 1500 222 Rem, and Rem 700 rebarreled 25-06 stainless heavy barrel). I also wore out the hammer and sear on a S&W M52.

I load bulk reloaded ammo into 50 round plastic trays and check for properly seated primers. My last serious reloading session was 6,000 rounds of 45 ACP. I thought I was going to prepare myself to go to Camp Perry for the Bullseye matches. I'm glad I didn't because of the rain.

Please, don't get me started on primer pockets. Is it there, well seat a new primer.

For enjoyment some like NFL on a big screen with a crowd and some like sitting in the backyard with an earpiece plugged into a transistor radio listening to a ML baseball game and some like both.

 

[Rule3]

For enjoyment some like NFL on a big screen with a crowd and some like sitting in the backyard with an earpiece plugged into a transistor radio listening to a ML baseball game and some like both.

True, but I still am not cleaning primer pockets let alone uniforming them.

I just loaded 50 rounds of 308 and didn't even clean the brass!

 

[forestswin]

True, but I still am not cleaning primer pockets let alone uniforming them.

I just loaded 50 rounds of 308 and didn't even clean the brass!

My favorite piece a reloading equipment is my Hornady Cam Lock Case Trimmer
But thinking back, I think the lathe was broke during the time when I had metal shop in junior high school so I was deprived.

Is this what they call "off topic"

 

[fredj338]

Personally, I would start with a progressive press and I would make sure the one I bought auto-indexed (the cases rotate with the action of the lever.) Since an auto-progressive press automatically circulates the cases through the stages, the chance of a missed powder charge or double charge is nearly impossible.

I started with a Hornady Lock N Load AP and I like it quite a bit. I reload 500 - 1000 rounds at a time. The Dillon 650 is another press worth looking at, the Dillon 550 is a step below the Hornady LNL AP as far as features go.

Honestly reloading ammo is not rocket science and there aren't any really "bad" presses out there. Personally I would steer away from LEE since they seem to cater to the value minded reloader. That being said, the LEE universal decapping die and their line of Factory Crimp Dies are great.

Chris

The misconception that an auto indexing press is near fool proof has KB a lot of guns. It's actually quite easy to get a squib, doubles a lot harder, but not impossible. I all comes down to the operator. It's nearly impossible to double or squib on a 550 if you pay attention & have proper technique, not unlike an auto indexing press.
LFCD, why? A solution to a none existent problem IMO. Many fo us managed for decades w/o one so why now? No, use good dies, set them up properly, the LFCD is just not needed, in handgun at least. WHy anyone cimps a rifle round, but for a few exceptions, haven't really figure that one out either. We won;t even get into the LNLAP.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Gentlemen, thank you one and all.

For arguments sake I am a beginner. I used to help my father reload when I was a kid. He used and still does use an old Lee H press. Slow and methodical. But I will agree accurate and sure. And like some here he's been reloading for 50 years.

I know nothing about progressives except that when set up properly you can load more in less time. That's what appeals to me.

I don't shoot as often and I used to. Maybe 100 rounds per gun/caliber per session.

Later I would like to reload rifle calibers but by then my dad will probably give me his H press. And he has all the dies I'll ever need.

Right now I am mainly interested in reloading 45ACP.

 

[*chris*]

The misconception that an auto indexing press is near fool proof has KB a lot of guns. It's actually quite easy to get a squib, doubles a lot harder, but not impossible. I all comes down to the operator. It's nearly impossible to double or squib on a 550 if you pay attention & have proper technique, not unlike an auto indexing press.
LFCD, why? A solution to a none existent problem IMO. Many fo us managed for decades w/o one so why now? No, use good dies, set them up properly, the LFCD is just not needed, in handgun at least. WHy anyone cimps a rifle round, but for a few exceptions, haven't really figure that one out either. We won;t even get into the LNLAP.

Wow, where to start? We can agree to disagree that squibs and double charges are more likely on a manually indexing press. Think about it, with a progressive press, if you don't charge the case, a bullet will not be seated and a spent primer will not be driven out. It HAS to index since the operator does not control the indexing and the next cycle will jam the press.

Regarding the LEE FCD, just recently I had a few hundred 45ACP rounds that chambered well in my 1911s and were very consistent and accurate. Guess what, I just bought a S&W 625 and the rounds would not chamber due to not enough crimp. The LEE FCD easily salvaged all those rounds and I was able to apply more taper crimp to chamber in the revolver, which is known for undersized chambers.

As I said earlier. the LNL AP is a great press as are all the others in the market.

Chris

 

[Bkreutz]

Gentlemen, thank you one and all.

For arguments sake I am a beginner. I used to help my father reload when I was a kid. He used and still does use an old Lee H press. Slow and methodical. But I will agree accurate and sure. And like some here he's been reloading for 50 years.

I know nothing about progressives except that when set up properly you can load more in less time. That's what appeals to me.

I don't shoot as often and I used to. Maybe 100 rounds per gun/caliber per session.

Later I would like to reload rifle calibers but by then my dad will probably give me his H press. And he has all the dies I'll ever need.

Right now I am mainly interested in reloading 45ACP.

If you're only going to do pistol calibers I'd suggest the Dillon Square Deal B, I thought about it hard when I was in the market for a progressive but I wanted the capability of loading 5.56 in large quantities as well so I went with the 650. The nice thing about the SD is that it's significantly cheaper than the other Dillon presses and it's already set up when you receive it, just put powder and primers in, adjust the powder meter and go to town. The down side is they don't use standard reloading dies so if you decide to load a different pistol caliber you have to get the conversion from them. (which isn't a bad deal, they make excellent dies). My main reason for a progressive is time as well, I'd rather be shooting than reloading. I spend more time separating, inspecting, and cleaning brass than I do reloading. All the modern presses (no matter the brand) are very reliable and you'll be satisfied with any of them (even if I'm prejudiced toward the color blue).

 

[Rule3]

Gentlemen, thank you one and all.



I know nothing about progressives except that when set up properly you can load more in less time. That's what appeals to me.

I don't shoot as often and I used to. Maybe 100 rounds per gun/caliber per session.



Right now I am mainly interested in reloading 45ACP.

These are the $64K questions.

You say 100 rounds per session. Convert that to how many rounds do you need or want per WEEK or MONTH.

The main thing to consider is do you need to spend the money (over kill) on something you will not utilize?? Forget BRANDS for now. HOW much can you spend???? (no need to answer that).

My situation just for comparison. I shoot a lot of different calibers (pretty much every handgun and 4 rifles) I shoot every week but not competition so I do not need 500 rounds a week.

I can buy a Dillon or Hornady progressive but I do not need it nor do I have the room. Sure there are times I would like one but I am in no hurry to load, it's supposed to be a hobby.
I can slowly crank out 150 rounds an hour. Keeps me out of the Bars

Started on a Lee single stage (Breech Lock) still have it but then got the Lee Classic Turret. For the price of it and all the extra turrets and dies it is less than a big progressive and I can change over in a few minutes (important for me).

So chose wisely Grasshopper

 

[SMSgt]

Quantity needed sets the stage for the press needed. If you're going to "start out" with a progressive, have an experienced mentor available. Reloading isn't rocket science, but it does require attention to details. Too many noobies don't grasp the details.

 

[Moonman]

If you're basically interested in loading 45 ACP to start, the Dillon Square D will handle the deal.

It comes from Dillon set up and ready to go with DILLON NON-STANDARD DIES, but it's ready right off

to load you good 45 ACP ammo or whatever caliber you initally chose.

Later on you could choose to add calibers with SPECIAL DILLON DIES ONLY and their set-up,

or sell the unit for a GOOD % of investment and buy a 550 or even a 650.

The 550 is very versatile but it is NOT a full progressive.

You'll still need to make an investment in Manuals, Scales, Tumbler, Cleaning Media, Lube,

Bullet Puller for mistakes and there will be mistakes, Solid Bench, Cases, Bullets, Primers, Powder, maybe a Case Gage.

The sky's the limit, along with your bank account and enthusiasm.

 

[novalty]

I would strongly recommend against the Dillon Square Deal B. For 2 reasons: 1 it uses Dillon's proprietary dies, 2 you are planning on reloading rifle in the future--which means you are going to need to buy another press.

 

[uechikid]

If, when you say straight wall ammo you mean Handgun (I know handguns aren't the only straight wall Ammo) you should consider the Dillon Square Deal B. It only does handgun. The price is right and it comes with dies.

 

[Maximumbob54]

The Hornady / Inline Fabrication Ammo Factory nears completion...



But really for a first time loader I would always recommend the Lee Classic Turret as it can be used like a single stage press and you can add all the options to it to crank out upwards of 200 cartridges an hour if you are set up right.

But I loves my LNL AP and Inline Fabrication only continues to make it better...

 

[millisec]

Its mostly about how much money you want to spend but I highly recommend a progressive to start. There's already enough to do and think about w/o having to manually index the shell plate too which just makes it easier to double charge. For my two cents I would recommend a LNL AP or a 650+.

I started with a Hornady LNL AP and haven't regretted it. There were some kinks in the beginning (Hornady had had some outsourced parts manufacturing issues) but they replaced every part I had an issue with and its worked flawlessly the past couple years. Called them the other day for a new powder tube which had finally melted down from nitro exposure and had it a couple days later. Hornady service is impeccable no questions asked (better than the attitude I got from Dillon over issues with my scale).

 

[millisec]

I'm not a high volume loader and other than occasional 223 or 45 this is dedicated to 9mm match ammo. The shell feeder and bullet feeder are nice when they work but they are also noisy as hell. I sit down and load a few hundred rounds at a time and maybe 4-5k a year. This 9mm setup is the Redding comp pro set with added Redding expander die. I may yet add a case feeder but probably not a bullet feeder since its bullet die would compromise my setup. I would like to get a 1050 for volume 223 but that's about $2400 loaded with case trimmer.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'M SO CONFUSED!!

Actually I've narrowed it down to a Lee turret press. Maybe. I do know that it won't be Dillon because of the dies. I will be "inheriting" many Lee and RCBS dies.

 

[2hawk]

You know that other than the Square Deal, Dillon uses standard dies, right?.....Lee and RCBS will work just fine.

 

[novalty]

Dillon is only proprietary on the Square Deal B, but there is a big price change going up to the 550B. When you change calibers you still have to change the powder measure set up and primer set up. So unless you have bought extra powder measures you have to do some work in between caliber changes. That is why you'll see people's benches set up with a bunch of tool heads, set up for specific calibers--gets pretty pricey that way.

The Lee Classic Turret is a good press to consider and will make the work a little quicker.

I think you would probably be able to do what you need on a Single Stage press, and get a RCBS Automatic Bench Primer for priming your batches of brass. You can go through and primer your 100 rounds, then powder them on a raised powder measure checking every so many rounds on your scale. For me in Maine, I use the winters to get my brass all prepped for when I can get outside to shoot. Helps to have a good supply of brass. So when I am ready to go out for a range session, I take a night and prime my brass and put into trays. Then another night and powder and seat bullets. I shoot about as much as you do during a range session it seems, and I am still able to keep up with my demand on a single stage for rifle rounds, and a Redding Turret for pistol.

Yes, progressives will do the job quicker, but reloading isn't a one size fits all hobby. Plus I enjoy the time spent reloading.

 

[fredj338]

Dillon is only proprietary on the Square Deal B, but there is a big price change going up to the 550B. When you change calibers you still have to change the powder measure set up and primer set up. So unless you have bought extra powder measures you have to do some work in between caliber changes. That is why you'll see people's benches set up with a bunch of tool heads, set up for specific calibers--gets pretty pricey that way.
.

I have I think 12 diff setups for the 550, I only have two pwoder measures. Unless you use the identical load every time in every caliber, you still have to adjust the measure. So for me, buying an extra one is not saving much time but is costing me more $$. So I have one for psitol & one for rifle, all that is really needed.
The same can be said for any progressive press, SDB, LNL, 650, etc. The primer change is also sim for all progressives between large & small. The 550 being quite simple to change.

 

[novalty]

I have I think 12 diff setups for the 550, I only have two pwoder measures. Unless you use the identical load every time in every caliber, you still have to adjust the measure. So for me, buying an extra one is not saving much time but is costing me more $$. So I have one for psitol & one for rifle, all that is really needed.
The same can be said for any progressive press, SDB, LNL, 650, etc. The primer change is also sim for all progressives between large & small. The 550 being quite simple to change.

Well 12 different setups would not be sim for a single stage would it? Agree 2 powder measures is all you need if doing both rifle and handgun, but as I said in my comment you will see "people" (not specifically fredj338) post picture of their reloading bench setup with a powder measure in each toolhead. Even without, I don't believe Dillon gives the toolheads away--and that's "no BS".

The primer change setup on the RCBS Automatic Bench Primer is also quite simple.

I try to stay out of these posts, other than offering suggestions directly to the OP, as they turn into a peeing match on what setups are best. To be quite honest, it doesn't bother me which way anyone decides to go when they start purchasing reloading equipment. People have to research on their own what equipment is best for their budget and needs--yes in that order. As mentioned before, no one individual's press is best for everyone, it ain't a one size fits all. As a Dillon 550B, wouldn't be best for someone that only does bench rest matches with large caliber rifles, as the Redding Ultramag wouldn't be best for someone who shoots handgun matches every weekend.

Just don't tell someone the only press to get is a "insert name" without trying to find out what they are using it for.

 

[CMD-KY]

Lou, thank you for an excellent post. It ought to be a sticky. I would like to have read it years and dollars ago.

Thanks, again.

I've been reloading 30+ years, and own both a Rock Chucker (my first press) and a Dillon 550 (my 2nd press).

Here's what I recommend for you:
Unless you're ABSOLUTELY certain you will NEVER want to own a progressive press, get the Dillon 550.

Why? Because what folks sometimes fail to realize and mention is that YOU CAN OPERATE THE DILLON AS A SIMPLE TURRET PRESS when you're learning. Heck, you don't even have to use the Dillon automated powder measure if you don't want to, but it ain't rocket science to set up. The instructions are EXCELLENT, written in English (by Americans), and well illustrated!

To operate a Dillon 550 as a turret press, follow these instructions:
Put in a fired round, size/deprime and re-prime, then advance the shell plate to station 2, without putting another cartridge case in station 1.

Expand and charge, then turn the press to station 3 without putting another cartridge case in station 1.

Seat a bullet in station 3 without putting another cartridge case in station 1.

Advance the press to station 4 and crimp, without putting another cartridge case in station 1.

Advance the plate and dump your finished round into the blue box.

There, you've just used your Dillon 550 as a turret press!

If you decide to start off with a single stage, no problem, many of us have done that. I keep my Rock chucker because I prefer to resize and re-form rifle brass in my single stage vs. my Dillon.

Good luck,
Lou

 

[forestswin]

I'M SO CONFUSED!!

Actually I've narrowed it down to a Lee turret press. Maybe. I do know that it won't be Dillon because of the dies. I will be "inheriting" many Lee and RCBS dies.

Just like Rule said in post 7---information overload --its happened to me too every time researching a purchase.
Just post the new factors you've discovered like the supply of dies you have available and keep narrowing it down. Friend of mine was a big time Bullseye shooter and he did all his 45 acp on a Lee turret- but that was pretty much the only round he loaded.
You'll get there.

 

[Rule3]

I'M SO CONFUSED!!

Actually I've narrowed it down to a Lee turret press. Maybe. I do know that it won't be Dillon because of the dies. I will be "inheriting" many Lee and RCBS dies.

Real Guns - Lee Classic Turret, It's Not Just For Kids

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm gettin edumacated here.

I stand corrected with the dies and Dillon. So I like the idea of a press that will load both pistol and rifle. The turret design appeals to me cause I can get more plates with dies. I do not want to keep adjusting dies.

Thanks again guys. I'd rather have too much info than none at all.

 

[Bkreutz]

I think you'll be well served with a turret press. I bought my Lee (3 hole, the 4 hole wasn't available then) in 1981 and it's never given me much problem. After I retired earlier this year I started shooting a bunch more than ever before (5 times a week plus matches 3 or 4 times a month) and I was spending too much time at the press. That's when I got the Dillon 650. Now I spend more time processing the brass than I do loading it. If it comes down to it, get the 4 hole turret rather than the 3 hole (both are still on the market). I've found that I'd like to have the 4th station available but too cheap to buy a 4 hole press. I still use my Lee turret for all my low volume calibers and the only problem that has developed after all these years is that the big roll pins that the ram pivots on will walk themselves out after a few hundred rounds, I suppose new roll pins are in order but again I'm too cheap so I just tap them back in with a hammer when they get to 1/4" out. , whichever way you go it will be a satisfying experience and a big money saver too. (I figure 9mm is costing me 25 to 30% of the cheapest "store bought" ammo I see).

 

[David Sinko]

The two that I use most often are a Dillon RL550B and Lee Challenger. I use the Dillon when I need to load hundreds at a time and the Lee when I need to load dozens at a time, or a few for testing. If you are a serious shooter and you want to reload, I think you will need at the very least a simple progressive that can easily be caliber converted (I prefer one without auto index, such as the 550) and a simple single stage press. I find that with the Lee I can use the dies as adjusted for the Dillon by not screwing them in all the way. This saves a lot of time and aggravation by not having to constantly adjust dies.

I also do high volume loading of .45 ACP (thousands of rounds at a time) and for that I have a Dillon XL650. This machine loads only .45 ACP for me, since that's the cartridge I shoot the most. I never had a need or desire to caliber convert it, so for me it's a great loader of a single cartridge.

Dave Sinko

 

[Rule3]

Hey, How come no one mention the fine Smart Reloader Brand of copy junk??

Omega 800 Pro Kit - 872629, at Sportsman's Guide

SmartReloader Reloading & Shooting Products ? SmartReloader-USA.com


Smart Reloader USA, Developed in Switzerland, Designed in Italy BUT no mention of where it is made. Hummmm I wonder where??

Helvetica Trading USA, LLC is the sole distributor of the Smartreloader® branded products for the US market. The company is part of the Helvetica Holding SA, a Swiss based Holding Company which owns several companies in the sporting industry.


Most of the Smartreloader® products are developed in Switzerland by our engineers and designed in Italy by well known designers.


The main aim of our company is to promote the Smartreloader® products' quality in the US market and give an excellent customer care to all of the new Smartreloader® products' users.


We trust the highest quality of the Smartreloader® products and we also trust the excellent quality of our customer care service assisting all of the customers which trusted our products. You will always find somebody at Helvetica Trading USA assisting you with every problem or question you might have.


The Smartreloader® brand was first registered in 2004 in Europe for the online store SmartReloader, Shooters Supply | Reloading Press Equipment and Shooting Supplies selling reloading and hunting equipment in the European market. After one year the owners of the store started developing the very first products with the Smartreloader® brand: the SR750 Powder Scale and the SR100 Case Tumbler. Those 2 products got an immediate success in the European market and this helped the development of many more products until today. The Smartreloader® catalogue offers today a much wider range of products for Reloading & Shooting always at an affordable prices and featuring an excellent quality.


Our aim is to constantly research the way to develop new products, with high quality materials and great contructing methods but still keeping a low price to make affordable the product to everybody. Another goal we want to reach is to be appreciated by the US customers for our great Customer Service. Whenever you will have a problem with one of our products be sure we will make you happy in the shortest time possible after you contact us.