It wasn't Caldwell that came out with the Rice. Quaker had puffed rice shot from guns years ago.
Whoopsie at the Range
- Thread starter RobertJ.
- Start date
It wasn't Caldwell that came out with the Rice. Quaker had puffed rice shot from guns years ago.
With the price of beans and rice today..................
free sand seems to maybe, be a good idea, at this time ?
Just don't spill it in the house !!
free sand seems to maybe, be a good idea, at this time ?
Just don't spill it in the house !!
MygunisaS&Wrevolver
Member
Hey, just in case you run out of sand from the Seaside beach or you have to fight with all the clam diggers to get refilled, you could always use an old boat fender for your sand bag. That would be a true "coasty" Oregonian.
OP
RobertJ.
Member
Funny thing about that- I had just shot a warmish load through my .45 Colt RBH, and I put a work shirt over my bags. I'm glad I did, it burned two holes in my shirt.
And years ago when I was a kid in Alaska, my dad's friend Floyd put a hole through the hood of his truck, because he didn't take into consideration the height of his scope.
On my very first medium game hunt (antelope) we were driving out to a ridge line that we planned to set up on the following morning. The guide spotted an antelope about 300 yards off the two track trail and stopped to look at it. Since it was just standing there he and my dad suggested I rest my rifle across the hood of his Blazer and shoot it.
I wasn't real thrilled as it was a step removed from road hunting and not really what I had envisioned.
My dad took my reluctance as an unwillingness to shoot a game animal and went into full jerk mode as he seemed to think his manhood and parenting ability was in question. The guide followed his lead and was also adamant in encouraging me to shoot.
By this time I'd looked through the scope at the antelope and back up over the rifle at it, but something just didn't look right and raised a whole new objection. However the adult peanut gallery was in full bloom insisting I shoot and refusing to listen to the objections from my 12 year old self that something didn't look right.
So I shot. It sounded funny. The guide was confused as he couldn't spot the round and he didn't think the antelope had been hit since it didn't even flinch. Since the antelope was still standing there (no doubt thinking "who are these idiots?", the adult supervision squad both started yelling for me to shoot again.
It still didn't feel right, so I looked over the rifle again….and noted an oblong hole on the left side of the hood where a .243 caliber, 100 gr bullet at 2900 fps caliber bullet had obviously creased and then punctured the hood. It became obvious that while the scope's line of sight cleared the hood, the muzzle did not, given that the Blazer was slanted upward slightly on the uneven two track road.
I lifted my rifle off the hood and started clearing it. My dad had a melt down as he was now totally convinced I was destined to become a future Sierra club member and president of PETA.
I ignored him and looked at the guide and explained I knew where the first shot went. He raised an eyebrow and I pointed at the hole in his hood. Dad then also saw the hole and launched into a whole new fit about shooting the truck.
At this point the guide told him to shut up as it wasn't my fault. He pointed out that I'd repeatedly told them it didn't look right and that I didn't want to shoot. He pointed out they'd both made incorrect assumptions about why I didn't want to shoot and insisted that I shoot.
Upon examination we found the bullet passed through both layers of steel in the hood and then passed through a double metal section on the inside of the fender but didn't exit the fender.
Dad wanted to pay the guide for the damage but he refused as he'd been a big part of cause and planned to just leave it there as a "safety first" reminder.
I realized that it was ultimately my decision to shoot and that shooting because someone told me to wasn't a winning plan even if it's your somewhat excitable dad.
ajgunner
Member
A friend recently did that to one of my nice bags with a blast from the cylinder gap on his 686. The gun had slid back off the leather part with recoil and the next shot made a nice clean slice in the cordura. Also found out real quick that it was filled with walnut media. I had planned to just duck tape wrap it, but next time he was over he brought me a brand new replacement bag.
I've been using the same Peltor bag for nearly 40 years and it has held up to all sorts of rounds from .22 to heavy .44s. Spend the money for a leather bag and you will stay happy in the long run.
Cylinder gap on a revolver is a huge detriment to your shooting bag or hand if you pit it near the gap.
Cylinder gap on a revolver is a huge detriment to your shooting bag or hand if you pit it near the gap.
Montana law
t is unlawful for anyone to:
hunt or attempt to hunt any game animal from any self propelled (motorized) or drawn vehicle. To be lawful, a hunter
must have two feet on the ground and his/her body outside of the vehicle. Holders of the Permit To Hunt From A vehicle are an exception to this. ((9)(a) A person qualifies for a permit to hunt from a vehicle if the person is certified by a licensed physician, a licensed chiropractor, a licensed physician assistant, or an advanced practice registered nurse to be nonambulatory, to have substantially impaired mobility, or to have a documented genetic condition that limits the person's ability to walk or carry significant weight for long distances.)
61-8-369. Shooting from or across road or highway right-of-way. Except as provided in 87-2-803(5), a person may not shoot a firearm from or across the right-of-way of a highway.
Off toad trails have no right of way, on most country roads the right of way extents 30' from the center line. There may or may not be a fence line.
On Private land you can shoot off a private road.
t is unlawful for anyone to:
hunt or attempt to hunt any game animal from any self propelled (motorized) or drawn vehicle. To be lawful, a hunter
must have two feet on the ground and his/her body outside of the vehicle. Holders of the Permit To Hunt From A vehicle are an exception to this. ((9)(a) A person qualifies for a permit to hunt from a vehicle if the person is certified by a licensed physician, a licensed chiropractor, a licensed physician assistant, or an advanced practice registered nurse to be nonambulatory, to have substantially impaired mobility, or to have a documented genetic condition that limits the person's ability to walk or carry significant weight for long distances.)
61-8-369. Shooting from or across road or highway right-of-way. Except as provided in 87-2-803(5), a person may not shoot a firearm from or across the right-of-way of a highway.
Off toad trails have no right of way, on most country roads the right of way extents 30' from the center line. There may or may not be a fence line.
On Private land you can shoot off a private road.
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Very similar to road hunting laws in SD. My initial objection in my above post was just getting out of a vehicle, leaning over the hood and shooting. It's not the kind of hunting experience I want to have, then or now.
I eat what I shoot and deer and in particular antelope taste much better if the are shot first thing in the morning before they've don't any running.
My preference for antelope is to scout the area pre season and identify where they bed down at night and the source of water they will seek first thing in the morning, and then set up between the two point to harvest one just after dawn before it's been spooked and run by other hunters.
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I've noticed (with increasing frequency lately) that people seem to think a hunt (or anything else) is "ethical" if it is "legal". The two are not the same. Sometimes you can affect a change, sometimes you can't.
For example, I worked for SD Game Fish and Parks for awhile and I noted that fisherman, particularly in fishing tournaments, would honor the then 6 fish limit for walleye, but they'd do it by putting them in a live well and then releasing the smallest one when they caught fish number 7, and they'd rise and repeat the process to end up with the largest 6 fish in the live well at the end of the day.
Since there were not (many) dead fish floating at the end of the day, they'd think it was both legal and ethical.
However I was also a diver and under water photographer and being able to show literally hundreds of dead walleye on the bottom after a major fishing tournament was a first step in getting the practice banned for tournament fishing (a ban that still exists today from June 1-September 15. It also contributed to minimum length limits and envelope limits which have further evolved over the years with lake by lake flexibility to properly manage year groups and "stockpiling" of year classes.
The sad part about all this is that it has ended up being a regulatory fix for problems created by fishermen and guides who seem to have to either lost common sense and good judgement or just put profits before ethical conservation of the resource the make their living from.
No doubt the shift from an almost entirely local fishing to predominantly a tourist based sport fishing industry in the 1980s and 1990s massively contributed to the problem.
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Similarly, today I go on forums and see "long range" hunters who seem to not only think shooting a medium or large game animal at 1000 yards is not only ethical but goal worthy. Again, because it is "legal" they think it's "ethical".
If you engage them in a discussion about the practice, you start to see the flaws in the logic. Most ethical hunters recognize some variation of the "half second" rule that recognizes that at ranges where the time of flight is greater than 1/2 second, a game animal has enough time to startle and take a step forward before the bullet arrives.
The animal may startle due to the muzzle flash, or movement of the shooter under recoil, or may startle when birds or other small animals close to the shooter flush due to the gun shot.
The end result is a perfect heart lung shot being converted into a gut shot game animal that will take hours or days to die and is often lost when the Hunter fails to track it and or convinces himself he missed the animal.
For most high power center fire hunting rounds that 1/2 second distance is about 400- 450 yards. For example:
- a Federal .30-06 150 gr Nosler ballistic tip at about 2910 fps takes .5 seconds to travel 410 yards;
- a 7mm STW with a 140 gr ballistic tip at 3360 fps covers 475 yards in .5 seconds;
- the very popular but poorly suited 6.5 Creedmoor with the same 140 gr bullet only manages 2550 fps and covers only 370 yards in .5 seconds. Even if you hot rod it to 2700 fps the .5 second range is still only 390 yards - less than the .30-06.
These long range e hunters also ignore the poor terminal performance of bullets at less than about 1750 fps below which expansion is almost non existent. We can argue specific velocities for specific bullets in the 1500-2000 fps range (nosler specifies 1800 fps minimum), but pick whatever number you want as you still won't have it at 1000 yards in the vast majority of cases.
The 2700 fps 6.5 CM Nosler 140 gr bullet above hits 1800 fps at 555 yards and at 1000 yards it's still super sonic, but barely at 1265 fps.
Even the 7mm STW, a superb long range hunting round designed for long range antelope in big flat states drops below 1800 fps at 850 yards and has only 1590 fps at 1000 yards.
Yet, I read posts by wannabe snipers who seem to think it's ok to hunt elk at 1000 yards with their 6.5 Creedmoor just because they can shoot a 3 shot 1 MOA or even 1/2 MOA group on a steel plate at 1000 yards on a range under near ideal conditions - usually leaving out the bit about needing a half dozen shots to finally walk a round onto the plate.
They also ignore the reality that if you can't get closer to a game animal than 1000 yards you really are not much of a hunter.
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Personally, I have shot an antelope before at 600 yards and did it with a .308. However I did it only after careful consideration and preparation.
I was using a 26" rifle launching the 165 gr Sierra Game King bullet at 2785 fps. Sierra's techs had indicated to me it will expand to some degree at 1500 fps but stated 1600 fps was really needed for good performance. At 600 yards the velocity is right on that 1600 fps mark and I regarded that as my absolute max range.
The time of flight however was .85 seconds and as such care needed to be taken to ensure the target animal and other animals around it were looking away from and I took precautions to minimize/obscure muzzle flash and shoot with the muzzle over a hat or ground cloth to avoid kicking up dust.
I'd also been shooting .308 in high power rifle for years with a very similar bullet (168 gr SMK) well as being very familiar with that particular rifle and had a high level of confidence in my ability to hit within a 6" diameter circle at that range on the first cold bore shot. It was also a rare day with calm winds and early in the morning with no mirage.
It was also extremely open country where tracking a wounded animal would not have presented any challenges.
The reasons for the long shot were related to hunting on grazing association land where the antelope were hunted year round by tribal subsistence hunters, so they were very adept at staying in areas at least 500 yards away from the nearest concealment.
It was a stretch to the limits of what I considered ethical yet I see way too many hunters taking much longer shots with far less thought about the reality of taking a game animal cleanly and humanely at ranges over about 450 yards.
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Well said, particularly on the long range shooting/alleged hunting.
Well said, particularly on the long range shooting/alleged hunting.
dsf
Member
You know, I read "dungaree" before I saw location and thought "this guy must be from MA" - as I enjoy a grinder and Moxie for lunch …
I see the OP is using a Contender. Would be curious as to what cartridge did the deed.
My main problem with long range shots is that even with a gun like a 300WM and good bullets once you get out very far it is not only a question of ballistics, but of range estimation. The difference between 300yds and 400 is 12" and 400 to 500 is 18 and that is with a BT Ballistic tip. Even if you know your ballistics by heart a 50 yd mistake in range, especially when added to even a MOA error the wrong way means a wound instead of a kill. Yes, there are good range finders. But, not often have I found an opportunity to use one of those take a guess at the wind, then line up a decent shot using a rest. Shooting prairie dogs with some wind, varying ranges, first at one angle then another is and interesting experience in field condition shooting.
The .5 second rule is interesting, but then I have had an animal move tight as I pulled the trigger. most peoples reaction time is .25 seconds to visual movement, that means if an animal moves right as you start to pull the trigger it could have that .25 seconds leaving your bullet only another .25.
Here is another thing about long shots. The compass and Coriolis Effect. Shooting at 1000yds west could add 6" more inches of drop, east, 6" higher than North or south and north south adds or subtracts 3" of left or right. Add or subtract some humility and elevation and it gets even more interesting.
I do not believe I have ever shot a game animal much over 350 yds. Yet in the Marine Corps I always aced the 500 meter prone with a M14 using open sights. I mostly use a 300 WM and know I could make a shot at 500, IF the wind was right, IF, I had a good solid rest and IF I had time because the animal was not alerted.
I do not hunt very far from the road or trail anymore, my hips and knees will not allow that and dragging a dead animal very far is no longer in my play book. I confess to spending my time driving around in my side by side, walking out to spots and sitting etc. But, then I have not shot anything for about 4 years either, even though I could have. I get more of a kick out of setting up my wife or step daughters.
You are 100% right about antelope, figure out where they will water and get them on their way. I can find deer all day long. Bull elk are still a different story.
The .5 second rule is interesting, but then I have had an animal move tight as I pulled the trigger. most peoples reaction time is .25 seconds to visual movement, that means if an animal moves right as you start to pull the trigger it could have that .25 seconds leaving your bullet only another .25.
Here is another thing about long shots. The compass and Coriolis Effect. Shooting at 1000yds west could add 6" more inches of drop, east, 6" higher than North or south and north south adds or subtracts 3" of left or right. Add or subtract some humility and elevation and it gets even more interesting.
I do not believe I have ever shot a game animal much over 350 yds. Yet in the Marine Corps I always aced the 500 meter prone with a M14 using open sights. I mostly use a 300 WM and know I could make a shot at 500, IF the wind was right, IF, I had a good solid rest and IF I had time because the animal was not alerted.
I do not hunt very far from the road or trail anymore, my hips and knees will not allow that and dragging a dead animal very far is no longer in my play book. I confess to spending my time driving around in my side by side, walking out to spots and sitting etc. But, then I have not shot anything for about 4 years either, even though I could have. I get more of a kick out of setting up my wife or step daughters.
You are 100% right about antelope, figure out where they will water and get them on their way. I can find deer all day long. Bull elk are still a different story.
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OP
RobertJ.
Member
max503
Member
Its amazing how accurate those Contenders can be.
bbqncigars
Member
An empty larder is the only reason I would take an extended shot, and only if I couldn't get closer. Two days of starvation in '77 led to a mule deer doe filling my refrigerator after one round from gramp's single shot .22. Might have set a record time for field dressing on that one. ;-)
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