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WHY .38 SPECIAL?
- Thread starter Rudi
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I'm guessing it was probably marketing.
The BRASS is .379 so calling it a .38 based on the diameter of the brass has a certain validity but still makes it sound bigger and better than calling it a .36
The BRASS is .379 so calling it a .38 based on the diameter of the brass has a certain validity but still makes it sound bigger and better than calling it a .36
nicky4968
Member
The .38 Long Colt has a heeled bullet, like the .22 rimfires. It was the same diameter as the case. It was outside lubricated.
The later Special is basically the same case with a smaller inside lubricated bullet.
The later Special is basically the same case with a smaller inside lubricated bullet.
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This is correct. They reduced the bullet diameter to accommodate the inside lubricated "technology". The rest was marketing. A ".36" would seem inferior to ".38". People were used to .38.
The same thing happened to the .44 Special.
geeollie
Member
Hey!! I just learned something.
thank you.
thank you.
Sistema1927
US Veteran
And the mighty .44 Magnum is .429.
Alk8944
US Veteran
True, but the responses so far have been totally incomplete in answering your original question. Here is the whole story.
The original .38 Caliber cartridges were the .38 Short and Long rim-fire intended for the breech-loading conversions of the Colt, Remington, etc. .36 cal. percussion revolvers**. Bullet diameter of these rim-fire cartridges was .377-.379", very legitimately called .38 caliber. When these cartridges were eventually up-graded to center-fire configuration with heel-based bullets of the same diameters the .38 designation stuck.
Eventually the center-fire cartridges were further improved to use of inside-lubricated bullets of .357 nominal diameter the .38 caliber designation was thoroughly established, and finally barrel groove diameter was reduced to .357" to match the ammunition. The final iterations of this progression of cartridges was the .38 Special and .357 Magnum!
So, even though the .38 Long Colt is commonly cited as being the parent cartridge to the .38 Special, the truth is the .38 Short and Long rim-fires are truly the great-great great grand-parent cartridges of the .38 Special and later developments that followed.
NOW you really know why the .38 Special is called a .38!!
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hkcavalier
US Veteran
But why is a .38-40 a .400 bullet? 
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But why is a .38-40 a .400 bullet?
The reason for that is probably lost somewhere in the archives of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company's marketing department.
Perhaps they felt .40-40 was confusing and too close to it's big brother the .44-40? It was originally introduced for rifles and I'm not sure what the competitive landscape looked like in the lever action rifle market in 1874.
I've never heard an explanation for that one. Some things remain a mystery.
scattershot
Member
To further muddy the waters, the 38/40 Takes a .401 bullet,as stated, and the 44/40 is actually a .427. Think I’ll stick with the good ol’ honest .45.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
As others have pointed out above, many of the early cartridges accepted heeled bullets (reduced diameter bullet body to fit into the cartridge case, larger diameter forward portion to fit the bore and groove diameters).
The ..38-40 utilized a different approach, having a smaller diameter lead bullet with hollow base intended to open up to seal the bore and grooves upon firing.
The .38-40 cartridge was originally called .38 Winchester Center Fire (WCF), while same case with .44 bullet was known as the .44 WCF. Original loadings of both utilized cast lead bullets somewhat smaller in diameter than the (then standardized) bore and groove diameters.
Later on in the decades of cartridge developments other manufacturers started chambering firearms for the Winchester-developed loads. Some used marketing terms featuring their own company's name, some simply wished to avoid promoting a competitor's name (Winchester), perhaps some wished to avoid claims of copyright infringements. Regardless of the specific reason, these two cartridges became commonly known as the .38-40 and .44-40, terms which identified the nominal caliber and the original weight of black powder charge (40 grains).
Similarly, Winchester's developments for the smaller-framed rifles (.25 WCF, .32 WCF) became more commonly known as the .25-20 and .32-20 as they gained popularity and general use among a number of firearms manufacturers.
Prior to about the early-1910's most of the major firearms companies stuck with their own proprietary cartridge designs. Colt, Marlin, Sharps, Winchester and others all offered a variety of cartridges, and few offered any chamberings other than their own. This created confusion in customers' minds, generated debates over the relative merits (accuracy, killing power, etc) of various makers' offerings, and vastly complicated supply lines (especially in remote areas). Custom gunsmiths were offering rechambering services to "improve" one maker's rifle by chambering it for another maker's cartridge.
All in all, it was a challenging and confusing time period for everyone involved. By the very early 20th Century the move was on for more standardization of cartridge designs, rifle chambers, bore diameters, and other aspects of the business. Some manufacturers continued making the earlier proprietary cartridge designs to serve their customers, some designs passed into history and owners of some firearms had the choice of abandoning use or having the rifle altered to an available cartridge (a process that led to even more problems along the way).
Also, the old New Model 3, 32-44 (and the .320 Revolving Rifle) were true 32 calibers at .323". The later .32 S&W Long is .312".
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...and the .36 caliber cap and ball revolver originated the caliber for the later .38 rimfire cartridges.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Jupiter 1,
Had you read my entire post you would have seen this was explained thoroughly already.
HKCavalier,
.38-40?
Even Charles Suydam (U.S. Cartridges and Their Handguns; Bienfeld Publishing, 1977) doesn't even venture an explanation for the .38-40 designation. I have always felt glenwold's explanation, "Perhaps they felt .40-40 was confusing" is the most likely explanation.
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hkcavalier
US Veteran
It's the one that bucks the trend. Most caliber designations seem to err larger, as pointed out in other posts.
4barrel
Member
A 38 s&w is .360. My lead boolits for revolvers are .358. I bought 1000 .357 gas checks on Gunbroker but when they got here they were .375s.
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gwpercle
Member
The nomenclature of ammo , both foreign and domestic ...but especially American naming , is extremely confusing .
A book , Cartridges or the World , helps explain some of the confusion .
The bottom line is in the USA there is no set standard .
The 41 magnum is correct with a .410" diameter bullet but after that it's pretty much what the developer wants to call it ...
There is no rhyme and very little reason to the whole affair !
Gary
A book , Cartridges or the World , helps explain some of the confusion .
The bottom line is in the USA there is no set standard .
The 41 magnum is correct with a .410" diameter bullet but after that it's pretty much what the developer wants to call it ...
There is no rhyme and very little reason to the whole affair !
Gary
gwpercle
Member
I always wondered why if the 30-30 was such a big hit in marketing what the problem would have been with a 40-40 ... it sounds just fine to my ears ...another mystery of life !
