Why are K-22's or any gun so different in pricing.

[model70hunter]

Last year I picked up another K-22 a tad over $700, nice, not 100% and it came with a gold box. It's very, very nice but it's a shooter.

I see folks asking is 550 an ok price or is 750 too high.

From working the other side of the counter at times several things determine the pricing.

Local market potential.

The biggest thing may be what they have in the piece.

If one sells for 550 and another similar one sells for 750 both LGS's may have made the exact same amount.

I know the LGS owner where I got mine. A guy came in and wanted a heritage 22 LR with both cylinders. He swapped straight across. He made 500 bucks. I still paid what the gun was worth.

Back in he day when side by sides were old and obsolete because everyone wanted a Rem 1100 I ran across Parkers higher priced, $350.00, in bigger towns to $150.00 in little burg LGS's.

The demand thing also affects pricing.

So if you bought a nice K-22 up to 750 or so you did great. I'm sure those pristine fully complete boxed 99-100% will demand more.

 

[chud333]

Well put sir.
Too often we hear of people on here wondering
if they got a "good deal" or not.
If the price is comfortable for you, buy it.
Do not worry about what Joe Blow paid in some
other state or some other city.
And don't let 100 bucks keep you from acquiring
that one you've always wanted or been looking for
a long time. Life's too short. Have fun.


Chuck

 

[chief38]

There is a LGS near me that doesn't give a hoot about wheel guns anymore. EVERY single wheel gun that comes in for sale or on trade-in is priced exactly the same! I went there a few months ago with a friend who was looking for an older M15 and asked me to come along to do the check out. There were 3 in the case. One was pristine - looked as though it had not been shot more than a dozen times (with original box and papers), one was slightly holster worn at the muzzle and on the cylinder but hardly ever shot and tight as new, and the third was a complete junker - beat to hell and back. ALL 3 were the same $375.00 When I asked the salesman behind the counter why, he just answered me "oh, we don't care about these old wheel guns anymore as they are obsolete and we just get 'em in and want to get 'em out". Guess which one my buddy bought.......

I have seen garbage priced very high and I've seen really good guns go for a song - just like any other items that get sold. Just check 'em out thoroughly before skinin' yur wallet!

 

[Hawg Rider]

Most LGS's know what they have

Chief38: I think that your local LGS must be an exception. Around here, the dealers are very conscious of the value of vintage revolvers, and price them accordingly. They routinely check the internet for current selling prices and condition, and usually try to establish a fair market price. And I guarantee you that they always make a good profit (probably almost 100%) on used wheel guns because they are very stingy when they take a gun on trade-in or purchase from an individual. They don't make much profit on the new plastic pistols, so they make their $ on used guns (especially police dept. buy outs and trade-ins). My LGS usually sets a price on their used revolvers, and rarely will they dicker. They don't care if those guns sit in the display case for a while- sooner or later someone will come in and buy them. I'm fortunate in that one of my sons works there, so I'm one of the few that gets a few bucks knocked off the price!

You guys are all correct- demand and availability drive the price. If a gun store doesn't want to take the time to evaluate and price accordingly, I feel that they are not making the best business decision.

 

[F75gunslinger]

I've found that big box stores ( gander mountain around here is the best for this ) have a general disdain for blued guns. They price the stainless stuff at almost new prices, but if it's blued they don't seem to think it's worth much.

 

[JSR III]

In real estate, the motto is location, location, location.

In guns, the motto is condition, condition, condition.

The other factor to consider is the old interweb. An LGS that is interweb savvy will typically check prices on the net and then price their inventory accordingly. The old school LGS may just add a profit and sell the gun for a little over what he paid for it. Not every seller is an expert on every model.

If some old guy that bought his K22 for $50 back in the day is offered $200 by the LGS, he might jump at the price if he isn't current on value. One LGS might throw that gun out for sale at $375 and be happy to make $175 and another might put it up for $750 because that is what he sees on the net.

What really matters is if you want the gun and can afford whatever price is being asked. You never really overpay for a gun, you just sometimes buy them too soon.

 

[TTSH]

Why are K-22's or any gun so different in pricing?

In real estate, the motto is location, location, location. In guns, the motto is condition, condition, condition.

Correct. I happen to be one of those people who likes a used gun to be in the best condition possible... and I'm willing to pay extra to get that better than average condition when I buy. Smart sellers understand that and price their used guns accordingly.

Location and shop-to-shop variations are also important. There are shops in my state that are volume and price leaders... and there are other shops out to make a killing on a far lower volume of sales. I get physically sick when I see clueless noobie customers crazy overpaying for a gun when they can simply shop a little more or travel a few miles and save a ton of money.

Bottom line: It's important to know where to shop and what guns should go for. A little patience and shopping around can make a huge difference if you are up to it.

 

[Art Doc]

How many times have I posted on this forum that estimating prices is guessing and that there are far too many variables to make an accurate prediction on what any particular gun will bring? We can report what we've seen in our area, and what we've paid, but that doesn't mean the price will be the same on the other side of the country.

To a serious collector condition is everything and a 1% variance in condition makes a huge difference in monetary value. To the rest of us not so much.

Local preferences. I attended a show in Dallas about 15 years ago. I was stunned at how many nickel plated S&W revolvers were offered for sale. I saw more at that one show than I had seen in the previous 20 shows combined. Are nickel plated S&Ws real popular in Texas...or just Dallas...or was that one show an anomaly? Probably a good time and place to get a deal on a shiny Smith, though.

Scarcity. How many are available? Only one Registered Magnum in 22 Long Rifle. Several million M&Ps. A nice M&P is $400 and the 22 caliber RM would probably fetch $50,000 or more at auction.

A $50,000 house in Bakersfield would be priced at a million dollars in Marin County. Speaking of California, some states have laws restricting the sale of used guns. If you got one, you can get a lot for it. A $500 M28 in Nebraska becomes a $1,000 gun in California.

Fads and trends. A couple years ago the Model 58 was all the rage and I saw one with serious blue wear and surface corrosion sell for over a grand. I'm old enough to recall the 44 Magnum craze in the years post Dirty Harry when dealers were doubling the retail price on any 29 they got in...and were selling them. In recent years the 28 has developed a cult following. I have seen 28s priced higher than the much more deluxe 27s simply because people will pay it.

Fear. The president calls for limits on gun buying or prohibition on some guns and you've seen what happens. People will throw money at a seller to get something they fear they won't be allowed to buy next week.

As a general rule, all other things being equal, older will sell for more. We've seen the posts from guys all excited about the S frame model 27 he picked up. If you had identical 27-2s on a table except one was S298000 and the other was N102000 you could ask fora significant premium for the older one. The guns are identical, but that S prefix will bring more and sell faster.

The auction sites (GB being the biggest) may give some idea of value, but often 2 or more bidders get carried away and the final price is unbelievable. Or an item draws no attention for some reason. I have bought a couple guns with a low opening bid because nobody else bid. I have a 90% Model 14-3 I bought a few years for the starting price of $100. Mine was the only bid. It was a pawn shop dealer selling it and I actually offered to allow him to relist it because I didn't want to feel guilty about paying so little for it. He refused saying that's the auction biz. He said he'd make it up on the next one.

The bottom line is that anything from a gun to a house to a car is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. If you just bought a gun for $500 don't come to the forum and ask what it's worth...it's worth $500. We all have to decide what any particular item is worth to us. What somebody else is willing to pay is of little matter to me. He probably makes more money than I do. Maybe he wants it more than I do.

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

Lots of variables, but you hit on a couple.

 

[Arik]

Chief38: I think that your local LGS must be an exception. Around here, the dealers are very conscious of the value of vintage revolvers, and price them accordingly. They routinely check the internet for current selling prices and condition, and usually try to establish a fair market price. And I guarantee you that they always make a good profit (probably almost 100%) on used wheel guns because they are very stingy when they take a gun on trade-in or purchase from an individual. They don't make much profit on the new plastic pistols, so they make their $ on used guns (especially police dept. buy outs and trade-ins). My LGS usually sets a price on their used revolvers, and rarely will they dicker. They don't care if those guns sit in the display case for a while- sooner or later someone will come in and buy them. I'm fortunate in that one of my sons works there, so I'm one of the few that gets a few bucks knocked off the price!

You guys are all correct- demand and availability drive the price. If a gun store doesn't want to take the time to evaluate and price accordingly, I feel that they are not making the best business decision.

My LGS is the same. They don't move on the price for nothing. They don't care if it sits a year sooner or later someone will buy it. It doesn't take up space. But their prices are very good so usually something doesn't sit too long. But even if you wanted to knock of another $25 or $10 or...? It's a flat out NO!

 

[steelslaver]

K 22s do sell for premium over most of the other K frames. But, S&W probably made way more 38 K frames and quite a few in 357. Lots of other 38&357 S&W available. If you want a S&W 22 with a better action ndd size than a J frame (which are mostly made in 38) your only choice is K22. Smaller numbers of a great gun.
One thing about the net deal is some people see a gun similar to one they have sell for a high price they think their must be worth the same. Not knowing all the variables.

 

[usm1rifle]

The bottom line is that anything from a gun to a house to a car is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. If you just bought a gun for $500 don't come to the forum and ask what it's worth...it's worth $500.

I agree with SP on his entire post but especially the above.

 

[Checkman]

All correct. A few months ago I won a pristine Colt Model 1917 at auction with a winning bid of $550. Nobody was bidding on it. I didn't expect to get it and I wanted that Colt. Just down the street (a couple of blocks actually) there was a chewed up 1917 for sale at a LGS for $1,000 so I was expecting for it to go past $1,000. It didn't. I wanted it and I was willing to go as high a $650.00. Nobody else wanted it and $550.00 was just too much for them.

 

[glowe]

I think we get price and value mixed up sometimes in our ongoing conversations on whether someone paid too much or too little. To me, value is a number that is not dependent on location, partially due to a huge online marketplace available to everyone across the country. Whether a LGS prices a K22 for $500 or $800 for the same gun is not an indicator of value, but rather what the shop either needs to get out of the piece they took to make a certain percent profit or how much they think they can get away with charging. Both do not have much to do with establishing value, because a buyer can easily find the same K22 on many online auctions without much trouble. There are currently 66 K22s for sale on only 4 auction sites I just checked.

How do you determine value? Many LGS rely on the bibles of pricing like the Standard Catalog of Gun Values or the Blue Book of Gun Values, both of which offer values many of us know are wrong. I have been tracking the K22 for a couple of years and keep a database on online auction sold guns. It is my opinion that there is an established average price paid (value), plus commissions and shipping to get to total cost to the buyer.

In the last half of 2015, I have logged 29 pre-model K22s and 31 Model 17s sold on various online auction sites. I throw out the beaters and shooters, so the 60 in the database are 90% to 98% guns. Average total auction price paid for a pre-model K22 was $725. Model 17 was $694. To me, those numbers represent the current values of K22s.

 

[4-Screw]

I agree with demographics as well, as SaxonPig noted, along with his other well thought out points.

For example, the .38 Super guns bring a premium in Texas or other border areas due to Mexico, whereas the pricing in Washington State might be at the lower end.

 

[DWalt]

Condition
Scarcity
Unusual features
Snob appeal
Publicity (example - Dirty Harry's use of the M29)
Local factors (different states, different cities, local economy condition)
Gun control scares

 

[Sawfish]

In real estate, the motto is location, location, location.

In guns, the motto is condition, condition, condition.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[peterdeb]

After reading this thread, I am looking for a few opinions. I would like to buy a K-22, I am not a collector but condition as noted is important. Getting older, I now want a K-22 in the year of my birth, late 1940's. Your opinion, year of birth gun or a later model, with better bluing for a bit less money? Hard to answer I know because I am perplexed as well...but am leaning for my birth year gun, less bluing and costing a bit more.

 

[old pipefitter]

After reading this thread, I am looking for a few opinions. I would like to buy a K-22, I am not a collector but condition as noted is important. Getting older, I now want a K-22 in the year of my birth, late 1940's. Your opinion, year of birth gun or a later model, with better bluing for a bit less money? Hard to answer I know because I am perplexed as well...but am leaning for my birth year gun, less bluing and costing a bit more.

There is quite a few K22'S on gunbroker right now. You should be able to find one made your birth year. I'm looking for something in mine "52"

 

[daddio202]

After reading this thread, I am looking for a few opinions. I would like to buy a K-22, I am not a collector but condition as noted is important. Getting older, I now want a K-22 in the year of my birth, late 1940's. Your opinion, year of birth gun or a later model, with better bluing for a bit less money? Hard to answer I know because I am perplexed as well...but am leaning for my birth year gun, less bluing and costing a bit more.

I would if I were you stick to finding a birth year gun. Late 40's K22 are great guns and myself on the lookout for a nice one. In my mind the 30's up until 1960 are the very finest made S&W revolvers. Any models in that date range are very fine hand assembled and fitted guns the likes of witch we will never see produced again. Just my personal opinion.