Why carry in Detroit?

[Protected One]

I was a cop in Detroit during the Murder Capitol days and you can be assured that a few times I had my gun in my lap, good idea or not. Same with working the Liberty City area of Miami-Dade after the 80’s riots. Just seemed like the prudent thing to do occasionally.

My solution to being ready in a heartbeat...

 

[fredj338]

Black females are the fastest growing concealed carry demographic. There are good reasons for this, given the over representation of minorities in high crime areas, and the traditional increased vulnerability of women in those areas.

One thing most shooters today are not aware of is that gun control was very much a civil rights issue as many southern states and jurisdictions made it harder for blacks to carry handguns for self protection. I still see the echoes of this in the form of high permit fees and training costs that make it more difficult for minorities, who are over represented in low socioeconomic status, to obtain concealed carry permits - over and above the issues with arrests being used as the new Jim Crow laws in some jurisdictions.

In that regard, one thing I notice at the local range here in NC is a subtle and sometimes not so subtle judging of minorities who show up at the range. That's not only morally wrong, it is massively counter productive from a 2A perspective.

I don't care whether shooters are:
- conservatives or liberals;
- legal immigrants or decedents of the Mayflower;
- male, female (or one of the recently added options that I find confusing);
- straight, homosexual, bisexual or poly;
- black, white, brown, yellow or red;
- rich or poor.

What I care about is that they are interested in shooting, whether for recreation, target practice, hunting, competition, or self defense.

We ALL need to feel that way as every shooter we make feel unwelcome and lose is a vote we lose in the 2A political fight.

I am a yes sort of on the not caring who shoots at a range. I am really not a fan of gang or criminal elements practicing their shooting, especially at a public range. There is a limit to progun/2a policies.

 

[fredj338]

When it comes to lawfully carrying a firearm, always remember that when seconds count, the police are minutes away. It's sad that so many people simply do not understand or are unwilling to accept this simple reality.

Considering avg LEA response time of 8m, that statement is 200% correct. Does little good if they are 1m away when I guy puts a gun or knife in your face. You have about 3sec max.

 

[fredj338]

I was a cop in Detroit during the Murder Capitol days and you can be assured that a few times I had my gun in my lap, good idea or not. Same with working the Liberty City area of Miami-Dade after the 80’s riots. Just seemed like the prudent thing to do occasionally.

Its just poor training & a bad habit. Yes I have LEO friends that have done that or on the seat next to them, but it wont be there when you need it, it will be in the floor or where ever. A simple clip on cross draw prevents loss & is actually faster than trying to get a gun off your lap. This assumes you are not holding it of course, now a diff dynamic.

 

[delcrossv]

I am a yes sort of on the not caring who shoots at a range. I am really not a fan of gang or criminal elements practicing their shooting, especially at a public range. There is a limit to progun/2a policies.

Considering the number of innocent bystanders shot in gang gunfights (way too frequent here in Chriaq), I'd think their practicing their shooting would be a good thing. At least then, they're only killing each other.

 

[GaryS]

You seem to think that they care about shooting innocent people. I can tell you from personal experience, that they don't.

Considering the number of innocent bystanders shot in gang gunfights (way too frequent here in Chriaq), I'd think their practicing their shooting would be a good thing. At least then, they're only killing each other.

 

[jscott]

At least one, probably two of the FBI agents lost their primary weapons due to using the lap ready position when they forced Michael Platt off the road in rhe Miami FBI shootout.

Thank you Univibe for pointing that out. As a former supervisor with MDPD Homicide, the unit that investigated that shooting under an MOU with the FBI Miami field office, I am aware of what occurred to that S/A and I had that in mind when I responded. Still, “When in doubt, have it out”.

 

[Texas40]

Why carry in Detroit.
Because its Detroit.
No other reason needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jscott]

Its just poor training & a bad habit. Yes I have LEO friends that have done that or on the seat next to them, but it wont be there when you need it, it will be in the floor or where ever. A simple clip on cross draw prevents loss & is actually faster than trying to get a gun off your lap. This assumes you are not holding it of course, now a diff dynamic.

Thank you fredj338 for pointing that the practice is either “Stupid, poor training, or a bad habit”. I can only say that it works for the lady from Detroit and it worked for me.

 

[BB57]

Its just poor training & a bad habit. Yes I have LEO friends that have done that or on the seat next to them, but it wont be there when you need it, it will be in the floor or where ever. A simple clip on cross draw prevents loss & is actually faster than trying to get a gun off your lap. This assumes you are not holding it of course, now a diff dynamic.

I agree there are better options. And if you are distracted enough by potential threats that warrant having a gun in your lap, you are distracted enough to significantly increase the risk of an accident.

There are a number of other options available. Whether it's a cross draw holster, or a holster between the seat and console, or a large rare earth magnet bolted under the dash, it's going to be a much more reliable solution.

However, I stop short of calling it "stupid" or a "bad habit". "Poor training" however fits the situation.

 

[moosedog]

Trying to draw a holstered duty gun from your gun belt while in a scout car with your seat belt on is hard. No two ways about it.
I always carried a model 49 on my left ankle and or another back up gun in a shoulder holster under my jacket if weather permitted. That way I can draw my backup without telegraphing if someone approached the scout car.
When I worked in Detroit it was required that you live there. Another reason I left for a different department.
Hats off to the men and women who work in Detroit and other similar cities. If your going to play the adult version of cops and robbers, that's the place to do it.

 

[Wise_A]

We ALL need to feel that way as every shooter we make feel unwelcome and lose is a vote we lose in the 2A political fight.

Amen. Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of the gun rights establishment doesn't get how off-putting some of their messaging can be. Time to lay off the NASCAR and country music.

In particular, I see a lot of instructors that just don't get it. They regularly say and do things, in public, at ranges, and even in classes, that are offensive to lots of folks. It's not a matter of a "PC culture war", it's a matter of being professional.

Anyways, I think we've reached the diminishing returns old, white, conservative dudes in gun culture. Time to look to, you know, everybody else. It's fertile ground--I get a ton of very furtive "How do I go about getting a gun?" or "Where can I learn to shoot?" questions from people who, shall we say, don't look like the editors' page of American Handgunner.