Why do people keep buying Sport IIs and then modifying them?

[Kadonny]

You Got me. I buy Colt rifles, and they need no modification. My latest is a Colt LE 6940. Everything about it is perfect, and mil-spec.

Mine was not perfect. My milspec Colt trigger was absolutely horrible. I put in a RRA NM trigger and it's light years better.

 

[K Frame Keith]

Because it's fun.

 

[charger73se]

This is exactly why I bought a 15T. Got what I wanted the first time rather than dump all that money into mods. Don't get me wrong. I like to tinker with stuff too, but I'd rather shoot my AR and spend money modifying my Mausers or 1903.

 

[COSteve]

My first AR was a RRA Elite CAR Mid-length as the mid length gas system ARs are just smoother and suffer less bolt & extractor issues than the carbine length sytems do. Great rifle and like many I went through stages with it where I added all sorts of stuff and then later decided it was way too heavy and so I went for light weight, removing most of the junk I added.

In addition to removing most stuff, I shipped the HBAR to ADCO and asked Steve to reprofile it to a light weight (including a smaller gas block), shorten it to 14.7", give it a target crown, and then weld on an A2 FH to make it legal. Then I replaced the furniture with Magpul CTR and MOE and loved it's light weight and compact style.

When my son decided he wanted to 'liberate' it for his own use, I went looking for a replacement mid-length, hopefully something I didn't have to go through all the mods to get it like I wanted. The M&P15 Sport was a carbine gas system and needed all of the changes I didn't want to go through again.

Then I found the M&P15 MOE Mid Magpul and it was set up almost exactly the way my RRA ended up. Currently available as the M&P15 MOE Mid, it's set up and all ready to go. Yes, it costs more, but my M&P15 MOE Mid Magpul was exactly like I wanted. The only mod I've made to it was to simply replace swapping S&Ws long FH for an A2 FH. Stock it makes a great light weight carbine and the mid-length gas system makes for smooth operation as well as increasing the sight radius by 2". Something to consider.

Shown here stock before I swapped out the FH. Later, I also added a custom made pistol grip like the one on my RRA above. Even today, some 3 yrs later, it's still as shown, still working great, reliable as heck, and still a favorite light weight AR.

Now that 'Hildabeast' is politically DOA, there likely won't be a frantic rush to buy ARs next year so the prices will likely stay low. My recommendation is to save up so you can get a model that's as close to what you really want so that you have something that starts out ready to go.

 

[coolcobramatt]

I guess I fall into the OP's main category as I took a new bone stock II and immediately added a new handrail, Eotech, compensator and cerakoted it tungsten. I wanted to customize mine so it looked a little different than the plain black version.

I've modded all my mustangs too so it must just be in my blood. I can't leave anything alone.

 

[AR Owner]

2 M&P 15's

1l) added flat dark earth Magpul M-Lock furniture and pmags, as well as a Nikon P223 scope. (Range and longer distance shooter).

2) went with black Magpul M-Lock furniture, Primary Arms red dot sight and streamlight polytac light on M Lock cantilever mount. (Close quarters and home defense)

I keep the stock furniture it came with in a box so if it ever has to go back to Smith &Wesson on warranty, it takes about 10 to 15 minutes to return it to stock form.

We dont have a gander mountain, Cabellas is like 150 miles away, and local shops have limited inventory.

Some people may be overwhelmed with parts and suggestions when it comes to building an ar and just prefer to start with a complete, ready to shoot weapon. And modify it to their liking.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

So its cheap is the reason to buy but so are a lot of other rifles... which in the end would be cheaper. When the Sport II was $500 this was the same with better specs and if you are only going to change the furniture out later a better value.

OEM MID-LENGTH 16" RIFLE | Brownells

Compare the specs. The Sport II has a 1:9" twist, which is as fast as I want to go. The gun you linked to has a 1:7", which I did not want.

For others asking why not the M&P-15 Optics Ready, it has an M4 profile barrel, which I do not want. I wanted the barrel profile on the Sport II.

And, while the Optics Ready carbine has a railed gas block, it lacks a folding rear sight. I don't see where this is worth the price difference, which exceeds what a railed gas block costs, and the gap is even more if you add the price of a folding rear sight, which I did want.

I did not want the free floating forend models either. They're even more money.

And, I wanted CAR length forend furniture, not mid-length.

The replacement furniture does cost money, but in my case I swapped with another gun.

Eventually a railed block with a folding sight or a combo block/folding sight will replace the A2 sight. But again, from a cost standpoint, it's still cheaper than getting the Optics Ready model. And the one linked to above does not have a railed block, just a smooth low profile.

So I think even when modifying it, you still get a lot of bang for your buck with a Sport II.

 

[JaPes]

Why are people buying the Sport II?

A 15-Sport or any other sub $600 AR-15 is akin to a gateway drug. It's usually someone's first AR-15. The only way you discover your preferences is via experience. The only way you get experience is through ownership and trying things out. My 15-Sport v1.0 (when I owned one) went from a nice, lightweight, keep-it-simple-stupid, $550 AR-15 to a decked out pig:

When I was new, I was counseled by those with experience to save up and buy a factory complete rifle decked out with as much of the things I wanted instead of doing it piecemeal. I bought a 15-Sport. I thought, "This is it. I own an AR-15. Don't need to do anything to it". Then everyone was doing Magpul furniture. The handguard isn't that expensive. The stock isn't that expensive...

Total up all of the $$$ I spent on the parts pictured and the parts that ended up in my spare parts box, I should have just bought a Daniel Defense Mk4 A1 and had everything I wanted right out of the box. BUT... I was new. I had no idea what was what. At some point I was so far in the $$$ hole modifying the 15-Sport that I actively denied how much I spent on "upgrades". I'd gone too far to stop.

I try to tell the new guys to be patient. Save up. Buy a rifle equipped and configured from the factory with as many of the things you want. Don't fall into the same trap I did. Hypocritical of me, but I still do it.

You know how my infatuation with the AR-15 ended? When I finally realized that no matter what part or adjustment I make to an AR-15 I really don't interface with one well. I stopped. I sold my AR-15's. I had gained enough experience to know my preferences, and bought a semi-auto clone of a military issue rifle other than an AR-15. I found what is right for me.

So it's chicken or the egg.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

A 15-Sport or any other sub $600 AR-15 is akin to a gateway drug. It's usually someone's first AR-15...

In my case it simply filled a gap in the collection.

 

[WVSig]

Compare the specs. The Sport II has a 1:9" twist, which is as fast as I want to go. The gun you linked to has a 1:7", which I did not want.

For others asking why not the M&P-15 Optics Ready, it has an M4 profile barrel, which I do not want. I wanted the barrel profile on the Sport II.

And, while the Optics Ready carbine has a railed gas block, it lacks a folding rear sight. I don't see where this is worth the price difference, which exceeds what a railed gas block costs, and the gap is even more if you add the price of a folding rear sight, which I did want.

I did not want the free floating forend models either. They're even more money.

And, I wanted CAR length forend furniture, not mid-length.

The replacement furniture does cost money, but in my case I swapped with another gun.

Eventually a railed block with a folding sight or a combo block/folding sight will replace the A2 sight. But again, from a cost standpoint, it's still cheaper than getting the Optics Ready model. And the one linked to above does not have a railed block, just a smooth low profile.

So I think even when modifying it, you still get a lot of bang for your buck with a Sport II.

I guess I just don't see the value when you consider that the Sport II has moved up to $620-$650 OTD.

I used that Aero as an example of what I consider a better alternative but if it does not meet your spec I understand that. If you have a very narrowly defined spec isn't it better just to build exactly what you want from the ground up or simply buy a complete lower and then complete upper made to your desired spec.

If you are capable of swapping out all of those parts you are more than capable of building it from the ground up so why start with a $620+ complete rifle? There is nothing magical about the parts used by S&W that makes them better then say PSA.

You see value I guess I don't. When Sport IIs were $500 + transfer maybe but not at $620+ transfer.

 

[wurger]

OP, I'm not sure why you need to get all aggro about other people modding their rifle in the way they choose.

Why do you care?

Like it isn't fun to mod an AR.

 

[CustomChevyGuy]

I understand the temptation to by a entry level rifle at a reasonable price, but part of me was very against hacking anything on a new gun. I waited and finally ended up finding a ORC in my price range. I honestly haven't done much other than add a scope, Magpul trigger guard and pick up a bumpfire system for a lil extra fun.. oh, and ammo! Tons of ammo.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against modding a new gun, but permanent modifications just don't make sense to me. Why risk voiding a warranty?

 

[S&W629]

WE had no need for an AR anything....but we bought into the S&W Sport II....to piss off the libtards....but do have fun with it at the range....

 

[WVSig]

OP, I'm not sure why you need to get all aggro about other people modding their rifle in the way they choose.

Why do you care?

Like it isn't fun to mod an AR.

I think you are missing my point and question entirely.

 

[speedyquad]

I keep seeing comments on voiding the warranty. Anything changed out is easily put back to stock form. Anything that may break is also easy to buy a replacement and fix yourself.

 

[JaPes]

I keep seeing comments on voiding the warranty. Anything changed out is easily put back to stock form. Anything that may break is also easy to buy a replacement and fix yourself.

The advice that a few others and I give is that after the initial clean, inspect, lube, is to fire between 250 - 500 rounds through your stock, fully furnished, AR-16, as it came out of the box. If you have an optics model or one that requires you to mount a front sight, mount whatever you need to aim the rifle. Why do I give this advice?

First, most people assume that a defect in a rifle is going to be something easy for the unitiated to remedy on their own. Some assume that everyone has enough mechanical aptitude to safely work on their firearm beyond a basic field strip. If someone recognizes that they don't know what they're doing, then a factory warranty / lifetime service policy is a godsend.

Second, what if it's a material defect in the rifle that isn't remedied by installing a cheap part? What if the upper receiver's barrel seating notch is slightly out of spec, throwing off the barrel, which then throws off the mating between the locking lugs on the bolt to the chamber lugs that causes intermittent issues? What if there was a flaw in the gas port which causes an intermittent issue? What if the rifle wasn't properly head spaced? What if the barrel's chamber has a burr in it, was reamed slightly off, etc. I've seen some odd-ball issues pop up from time to time with AR-15's that aren't easily remedied by a novice to intermediate enthusiast.

Third, say you take your factory fresh AR-15 out of the box. The AR-15 disease has already hit you. Before you hit the range, you ditch the A2 front sight post for a low pro gas block. You ditch delta ring and standard two piece drop in hand guard for a free float with a proprietary barrel nut. Might as well replace the trigger and install KNS anti-rotation pins. Pop in a heavier buffer because you've read posts and seen "the ejection chart" online. Find a NiBx BCG for $75? Install that too. You then take your decked out AR-15 to the range, where everyone has an AR-15 and they all basically look the same. You fire rounds. You start to have issues. Be it the 1st round or the 500th. Can't be! What went wrong? You've changed out enough to possibly affect the proper operation of your rifle. Time to put it all back to stock form so you can send it in. How hard was it to pound out those reverse taper front sight block pins?

 

[speedyquad]

JaPes, that really don;t cover what I am talking about. In the grand scheme of things, what's a little bit of time putting the stock parts back on when compared to what could be a costly repair. If you wre the one that installed the upgraded parts, you absolutely have the skill to inistall them and re-install the original.

And let's be honest, it's an AR. My wife isn't very mechanically inclined. She built her AR. I built mine without even holding one before. They aren't complicated to work on. I get that some people might not be capable of this. Those people will have had a gun smith install the upgraded parts will most likely have that same gunsmith reinstall the original parts. At that point, it is their decision on which cost is more acceptable to them.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

I guess I just don't see the value when you consider that the Sport II has moved up to $620-$650 OTD.

I used that Aero as an example of what I consider a better alternative but if it does not meet your spec I understand that. If you have a very narrowly defined spec isn't it better just to build exactly what you want from the ground up or simply buy a complete lower and then complete upper made to your desired spec.

If you are capable of swapping out all of those parts you are more than capable of building it from the ground up so why start with a $620+ complete rifle? There is nothing magical about the parts used by S&W that makes them better then say PSA.

You see value I guess I don't. When Sport IIs were $500 + transfer maybe but not at $620+ transfer.

Good points. However, when I was looking for parts that met my specs, the particular twist rate in the barrel profile I wanted were not available. It was just simpler to get the Sport II. Have another AR15 project gun stalled out for lack of specific parts.

 

[C J]

I bought my Sport because it is a good quality rifle at entry level prices. I have barely modified it at all but I did add a couple of things. Start with a red dot sight. They are the way of the gun these days or at least the way of the AR-15. I shot mine for a while with iron sights just to get used to them in case I ever needed to use them in a bad way. Then I added what I expected to add all along, a red dot sight. No modifications to the A2 sight post was needed of course.

The only other modification I made was a front hand grip. I did that because there is no heat shield in the stock hand guard to speak of. The hand grip allows me to grip the rifle away from the heat. I did have to add a small rail adapter for the stock hand guard. Total for the rail and the hand grip was about $25.

I did try to mount a green laser in addition to the red dot. I already owned that sight and hoped it would work well. But it didn't. The mount wouldn't hold in place. I may look for a better mount because I like lasers and a green laser has advantages. Still it wasn't a big expenditure and it doesn't require extensive modifications. Finding a better mount may be out of the question but that's OK. I do like being able to aim from the hip if needed and a laser allows you to do that. Or you can aim around a barrier while looking through a small opening away from where the rifle is. And the truth is I've had great luck using lasers on other rifles. I can hit fast moving targets by putting the dot on that target. It's a great thing to have IMO mostly for varmints. I can shoot at one and be looking for others to shoot at the same time. That's harder to do with a red dot or at least it is for me. I'm no good at keeping my off eye open while I use a red dot sight.

Beyond these minor things I do like it that I can change many things on this rifle if I decide to do that. I can keep it several years then alter it when I'm out of the current money pit of a house I'm living in temporarily. Buying new guns and major parts has been a rare thing since I had to move here for a while. It will be better some day and then I can keep swapping parts until I have enough leftover parts to build another rifle. I did that with computers way back when and made a bunch of money in the process. Sure you have to buy a motherboard and case but if you have kept the video cards and hard drives from previous upgrades you can eventually build a whole computer for very little money. In the 90's I took parts in as partial payment for installation jobs on computers (it was much tougher to add a sound card in those days etc.). Eventually I would have a computer to sell for more money than I could have made selling the parts individually. But that's no longer a valid way to make money and I don't expect to make money off spare AR parts. But I do think maybe I can possibly build a very inexpensive rifle with the parts I toss back in a drawer when I upgrade something. I'm sure I'd have to buy a few new parts but it would be way cheaper than buying a new rifle.

 

[O2Guy]

I bought 2 of the first generation Sport models when some people were dumping them to get the Sport II. I gave less than $400 for each. One is my truck gun. It is completely stock except that I added a Primary Arms red dot.