Why don't promoters have a hidden shooter to counter these attacks?

[richardw]

A ShotSpotter system could of acoustically trianglated the firing location within seconds. A handful of counter snipers could of poured automatic fire onto that spot in less than 60 seconds.

The thing is this guy had a pilots license and his own airplane. The results could of been worse if he had gone kamikaze.

Absolutely. In my post #32 above I did not mention sound detection but that would be part of the system.

Re the shoter's on another forum some one posted a list of owners of the aircraft. The first owner was Volant LLC, a supplier of services to the US intelligence community. You Hotta know that the conspiracy theorists will seize on that.

 

[amazingflapjack]

A Marine vet journalist who was there said (as was apparent) that the volume of fire alone made it obvious as to where this individual was. BB57 conveyed many of my own views on this subject, as well as others. Choice of venue, and many other considerations should be looked at first, unless we just continue to ignore the fact that we are under attack. Having no deterrent in place, hopefully provided by police or other authorized agent, is to invite more of this mayhem. Thanks

 

[Walkingwolf]

The shooter had the advantage, all he had to do was fire into a crowd. Even a good sniper would have had considerable difficulty locating him behind the blowing curtains. A shot a tad bit off also could take out innocent parties.

My suggestion would be in the form of beefing up hotel/casino security. Bags may need to be screened before being taken to rooms. As it is private property this is not an invasion of 4th amendment rights. Security should get SWAT training to respond immediately, instead of the hour it took to breach the room.

The truth is that terrorists will always find a way, if not shooting a pressure cooker bomb could have killed just as many people.

There is something strange about this shooter, I don't buy that he just snapped. I don't buy that he had no contacts with other terrorists. This was an AQ/ISIS style attack. His GF was in the PI at the time, a known hotbed for AQ, and ISIS. She is a non US citizen known to travel the world, making her a perfect conduit to entice a weak mind.

 

[GaryS]

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

B. Franklin

 

[pharmer]

If'n he'd have rammed a triaxle dump truck loaded with fill dirt into the crowd, the death toll would have been higher. Wait a week for some better intel before plotting a solution. Joe

 

[flagman1776]

Atackers who want to go down in a blaze of glory (sick) are often impossible to prevent an attack in advance. They don't plan to come out alive.
I wonder if an alarm system on the outter glass would pinpoint the source of the incident. It could be a jumper or some other issue.
Similar to a smoke detector... an alarm for intense noise like a gunshot detector within the hotel ... might likewise pinpoint the source quickly.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Atackers who want to go down in a blaze of glory (sick) are often impossible to prevent an attack in advance. They don't plan to come out alive.
I wonder if an alarm system on the outter glass would pinpoint the source of the incident. It could be a jumper or some other issue.
Similar to a smoke detector... an alarm for intense noise like a gunshot detector within the hotel ... might likewise pinpoint the source quickly.

It would only take a few located in the hallways, which are already monitored by video. I do believe thought that they received almost instant reports from the other residents on the floor. If a tactical team had been on hand it could have ended sooner.

I am surprised there was not a arc search light used for the concert. They do this at other outdoor concerts for effect. Aimed at the window of his room he would have been blind for some time considering the massive lumens those arc lights put out. My 1200 lumen flashlight will blind for at least a minute. An anti aircraft arc light puts out around 500,000 lumens, enough to permanently blind.

 

[carpriver]

I think the only way to have prevented the attack would have been to avoid renting rooms in any hotel that over looked the venue.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, The Shadow Knows, From the old radio and comic book, The Shadow. We just can't tell when a sane man will decide to turn evil.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I think the only way to have prevented the attack would have been to avoid renting rooms in any hotel that over looked the venue.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, The Shadow Knows, From the old radio and comic book, The Shadow. We just can't tell when a sane man will decide to turn evil.

I'm surprised he was able to break the glass with a small sledge. In most hotels that glass has a very high temper.

 

[tlawler]

There's no way to pre-empt every possible way a madman might strike. I will gladly take my chances with the mathematically infinitesimally small odds of being killed by a madman rather than to live in a society where this sort of thing can not happen. Because if this sort of thing could not happen, it would mean we lived under a government that dominates every facet of your life, think Cuba or N. Korea. That's not for me. Freedom has a cost, and it's worth it.

^^^^^
This

 

[sigp220.45]

If it ever becomes necessary to have counter snipers at every concert or outdoor gathering you won't need them. No one will be buying tickets.

 

[BB57]

A couple of thoughts and clarifications.

1. A .50 BMG would probably not be my first choice in an urban environment where the engagement ranges are going to be 500 yards or less. A .50 BMG can chew through just about everything on the average residential city block, and while high rise building have a lot more concrete and steel in the floors and support members, you can also see completely through those structures when they refurbish them - all you really have to stop a low angle shot that does not pass through a floor is some stele studs and dry wall.

A .50 BMG would pass through the entire building which might not be ideal. A .308 would get the job done just fine, and most PDs already have them in the inventory.

2. Having the local SWAT team assess a venue, identify possible shooting positions and then locate counter sniper or entry teams to suitable locations to address potential threats would not infringe on anyone's liberties or freedoms.

Every time I go to the white house or executive office building, I see snipers and spotters on the roof of the white house. It doesn't have any impact on business or the tourists gawking around. Most folks don't even notice them. The same would be true at a concert like the one in Vegas. No infringement of liberties at all, and zero inconvenience to any of the attendees.

3. Stadiums pose a different set of security threats, but this was an open air venue with a stage - a much different proposition, and covering the surrounding high rise buildings would have been comparatively easy.

4. Now that it's been done, the possibility of someone else doing something similar increases.

 

[BB57]

If it ever becomes necessary to have counter snipers at every concert or outdoor gathering you won't need them. No one will be buying tickets.

I'd argue it's not necessary to have TSA screening every person and every bag on every flight either. (We'd be better off with more intelligent screening, like the Israelis, focusing on terrorist detection rather than weapon detection.) But that major inconvenience has not stopped people from flying.

And technically, if you don't have any unruly or criminal behavior at a ball game or other event, you don't need security guards at all. The fact that they are present is a large part of the reason they are not often "needed".

 

[GaryS]

[/thread]!

If it ever becomes necessary to have counter snipers at every concert or outdoor gathering you won't need them. No one will be buying tickets.

 

[nachogrande]

ONE THING I CAN SEE.

Some type of alarm that alerts hotel security of a broken window. They aint made to open especially on higher floors. A broken window means security is needed fast, or Keith Moon isn't dead.

 

[LVSteve]

If it ever becomes necessary to have counter snipers at every concert or outdoor gathering you won't need them. No one will be buying tickets.

^ This. Can you imagine the prices after hiring the snipers and paying the liability premium?

 

[Muss Muggins]

I would like to hear the thoughts of forum members on why these large venue promoters don't have a hidden shooter to counter these attacks(?) Regards, Flapjack.

Speaking from experience, people who are good at that are really expensive and heavily booked . . .

 

[Muss Muggins]

Some type of alarm that alerts hotel security of a broken window. They aint made to open especially on higher floors. A broken window means security is needed fast, or Keith Moon isn't dead.

Problem with window break alarms is that they can be activated by bubble wrap or a door slamming. Not enough security in the world to respond . . .

 

[johngalt]

I'm not much interested in living my life under the gaze of a sniper. Freedom has risks. Sometimes bad things happen. I'm not willing to give up my freedom in a futile attempt to eliminate risk.

 

[Practical]

Interesting. I didn't see the topic drift. I had hope that some of the many former police-FBI-and military with combat experience would have responded. Maybe they still will.My feeling is that these promoters have been advised by their lawyers not to have any kind of counter sniper presence at these events, for all of the usual list of reasons, which, at least to me, are not credible in the war we are already well into in this country. It should be noted that high officials of all kinds have these teams deployed whenever they appear at gatherings of any size. I think that this event will be the beginning of big change in the U.S., and I don't thing that it will be good.

I don't understand how you can even THINK this is idea a private non governmental organization would consider. Asking if 'hotel' security even be armed is huge stretch.

I am scratching my head wondering how you can posit this as a plausible idea. Government agencies can do this NOT civilian organizations.