Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol!

[Knightrider03m]

I really like a thumb safety on a hand gun (not on the Shield through). Not to protect myself from.... well myself, but to protect myself against a successful gun grab. In the heat of the moment, the other person wouldn't even know there is a safety on the gun and by the time they try to do anything about it I would have already have my BUG in gear.

I learned this from personal experience as my dad is still alive today because he carried a gun with a safety on it and the other guy couldn't fire it. With that being said, when I ordered my M&Ps, non of them came with a safety as I like to keep my guns as uniform as possible so if one gun as a safety, all of them would have to have to one.

 

[Stu Honea]

We did somewthing similar in the early seventies.We had an officer killed with his partner's gun,and many of us started carrying the first chamber empty in our revolvers.
Gun grabs were quite common then.We knew that if we had to shoot it would take two fast trigger pulls to fire,but we didn't feel disadvantaged by that.
We felt that if the revolver was snatched,it would surprise the miscreant long enogh for us to move and access our back up revolver.Fortunately no one ever had to prove the theory,but I still think it was a good idea for those times.

 

[Houdini1953]

Perhaps I should have stated earlier why I see little sense in the thumb or frame safety for a striker fired weapon as there is no hammer to strike a firing pin and make the gun go bang from dropping it. With a striker fired gun the trigger is pretty much the only method of making the gun go bang, both Glock and Smith and Wesson approach the use of the trigger in different methods that both act as safeties the Smith uses a cantilever trigger and Glock has the weird looking two part trigger.

When I pull a weapon it is 98% certain that my next action is to use the weapon and that means that first I will draw the weapon and then acquire a sight picture and then squeeze the trigger to hit a target. I keep a round in the chamber of all my weapons (now with my model 59 I do have a safety and it does have a hammer so I do use the safety on that weapon only) my M&P's do not have a hammer because they are striker fired weapons and if they fall or get dropped to the ground they can not go off, you must pull the trigger for them to fire and this is the most modern method of firing a gun so the old steel and heavy guns of the past need this kind of stuff but the new guns are more sophisticated then that and take a different mindset.

It reminds me of my father who was a creature of habit who I asked one day as we were returning to the shop why did he get off the interstate 65 at Trinity Lane and then go through three school zones @ 15 mph only to get back on I-65 at Briley Parkway and then get off at Old Hickory Boulevard in Madison Tennessee taking about an extra 30 minutes each day and his answer was "that was the way he always went home to the shop" to which I said "Dad they completed I-65 15 years ago you don't have to get off on Trinity Lane and take Dickerson to Briley to get back on 65." He thought for a minute and said "you know you are right but it is just a habit and starting tomorrow I am gonna stay on 65 till the Old Hickory Boulevard exit and he did and we then saved 30 to 45 minutes from just going through school zones for no reason not to mention a slower speed limit.

So just because that is the way you have always done something does not mean that it is safer or better or even faster and it might be costly in other matters! This is my opinion but for those that feel better with a safety then fine with me I have one M&P with a safety and it is my newest 40 fullsize and if it is not on my person then yes I do put the safety on but if I put it on myself the safety is off!

 

[jay1975]

Shooting Padre, you are right about the M&P safety being too easy to actuate. I like a 1911 style safety that has a definitive lock when snapped on or off.

 

[carbofan21]

I still think S&W should have offered the Shield with a choice of external safety or not; like on the other M&P pistols. If they had, I would have picked one up w/o the external safety. Unless they do, I know quite a few shooters who are shying away. It's just one more thing that could malfunction at the wrong time.

Skip

ditto for me. i will buy one only if it has no thumb safety.

 

[Etemmu]

I dont understand the confusion about the safety. What difference does it make if the gun is striker fired, hammer fired, impact fired, or sneeze fired? A safety prevents the trigger from actuating the firing mechanism (I think!). If you like that feature, get it. If not, dont get it.

Even on the guns I own that do have a safety, I dont consider them safe. Because they're guns. Ever get into a colorful conversation with a Glock owner who swears their pistol can not be discharged negligently because they have a "safe action trigger"? There are those who believe this BS! Real safeties are very simple, but there seems to be so much disagreement/confusion about when to safety and when not to safety! It's kinda like arguing over which color is more delicious; orange or yellow

 

[SMMAssociates]

The M&P's thumb safety is a trigger block. It won't prevent any sort of true AD (as in "dropping the gun and disengaging the sear"), although the drop safety will do that.

The thumb safety in a 1911 is a hammer block. It won't prevent an AD from dropping the gun, either, but more recent 1911's may have a drop safety (either the Colt design that ended up in the Series 80, the Swartz - pre WWII design that Colt dropped, but Kimber uses, or something else) that covers the problem. The grip safety is a trigger block like that in the M&P.

S&W's "wondernines" and similar designs (my old M39-2) have a thumb safety that functions as a decocker, and locks the firing pin. Pretty much absolutely safe, but the fool thing is backwards compared to the 1911, and some models only use the lever as a decocker. I think they stole this from the Walther people - my PPK/S has the same setup.

We end up with "dropping the gun", which is probably a very unlikely occurrence (when it results in a discharge, that is), foreign materials (shirt tail, for example) in the trigger, and various finger on the trigger issues.

A firing pin (or striker) block (on both the M&P and current 1911's) may be the only way to deal with a "drop" situation, as unlikely as this is. In the 1911 line, a titanium firing pin (extra weight) seems to be the way around this without adding extra parts, if I remember right.

The various magic triggers in the M&P or Glock really don't help much if you get something in the trigger, but a trigger block type thumb or grip safety can help.

The hammer block safety (1911's and the PPK-style guns) may or may not (the 1911's won't) keep you from a "drop" discharge, but we've pretty well counted that out of the problem area anyway.

Overall, IMHO, it's what feels good for you. The thumb safety in the M&P can be "tuned" a little to make it a bit stiffer, or a bit looser. I'd like mine to be stiffer. But I've got one on my usual carry M&P40C because I'm a 1911 guy and just used (conditioned!) to flip off the safety. IMHO, you don't otherwise need it.

"The other guy"? I'm not sure any of us would manage to flip ON a safety, or drop a magazine in a "gun grab" situation, however if somebody's taking the gun from your holster, that's a different animal. BUT, IMHO, that's most likely in a "uniformed officer" situation, which isn't really applicable to the non-LEO. I don't think the average non-LEO need to think about that.

Regards,

 

[ultratec00]

My thoughts exactly. I don't mind the mag disconnect either. If you're struggling with someone as they try to snatch the firearm, pop the mag release and render it useless. While they point it at you and try to make it go "bang", you either run away or draw your secondary firearm and handle the situation.

I really like a thumb safety on a hand gun (not on the Shield through). Not to protect myself from.... well myself, but to protect myself against a successful gun grab. In the heat of the moment, the other person wouldn't even know there is a safety on the gun and by the time they try to do anything about it I would have already have my BUG in gear.

I learned this from personal experience as my dad is still alive today because he carried a gun with a safety on it and the other guy couldn't fire it.

 

[mlhumphrey]

I dont understand the confusion about the safety. What difference does it make if the gun is striker fired, hammer fired, impact fired, or sneeze fired? A safety prevents the trigger from actuating the firing mechanism (I think!). If you like that feature, get it. If not, dont get it.

Even on the guns I own that do have a safety, I dont consider them safe. Because they're guns. Ever get into a colorful conversation with a Glock owner who swears their pistol can not be discharged negligently because they have a "safe action trigger"? There are those who believe this BS! Real safeties are very simple, but there seems to be so much disagreement/confusion about when to safety and when not to safety! It's kinda like arguing over which color is more delicious; orange or yellow

Couldn't agree with you more... Think Plaxico Burriss knew whether his gun was striker fired, hammer fired, sneeze fired, or even cared???... Bottom line is, the trigger was accidently pulled while the gun (GLOCK) was in his pocket and he ended up with a hole in his leg!!!...Could have been, just as easily, another patron... Bet he wishes his gun would have had a manuel safety...

 

[mlhumphrey]

I dont understand the confusion about the safety. What difference does it make if the gun is striker fired, hammer fired, impact fired, or sneeze fired? A safety prevents the trigger from actuating the firing mechanism (I think!). If you like that feature, get it. If not, dont get it.

Even on the guns I own that do have a safety, I dont consider them safe. Because they're guns. Ever get into a colorful conversation with a Glock owner who swears their pistol can not be discharged negligently because they have a "safe action trigger"? There are those who believe this BS! Real safeties are very simple, but there seems to be so much disagreement/confusion about when to safety and when not to safety! It's kinda like arguing over which color is more delicious; orange or yellow

Couldn't agree with you more... Think Plaxico Burriss knew whether his gun was striker fired, hammer fired, sneeze fired, or even cared???... Bottom line is, the trigger was accidently pulled while the gun (GLOCK, you know the one with 3 safeties including that "safe action" trigger) was in his pocket and he ended up with a hole in his leg!!!...Could have been, just as easily, another patron... Bet he wishes his gun would have had a manuel safety...YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!

 

[Maddmax]

I have 5 M&P's. Four FS with out thumb safeties. Did have my doubts with the first one (that didn't last long), zero second thoughts on the next three FS. NO thumb safeties.
I DO like the thumb safety on the 9 Shield. It's a no use if holstered and a positive on if stuffed in a pocket or purse. It's a no brainer on why they put it on the Shield.

 

[AABEN]

Because that's what a lot of (gun-dumb) customers want!!!

So some of us is DUMB what are you??

 

[ED1]

Just like Horace & Daniel's said LAWYERS. God forbid one ever have to use his or her gun to defend themselves and cause the demise of a bad person(s), he defense lawyers would love to have that extra argument point that his or her client even made a conscious decision to purchase a gun with extra safety features (THUMB SAFETY) on it. Establishing that the shooter was not some gun nut prowling around the neighborhood looking for a quick draw gun fight. I dont know how that is GUN DUMB as one of our resident Einstein here suggest.

 

[pyper22]

Couldn't agree with you more... Think Plaxico Burriss knew whether his gun was striker fired, hammer fired, sneeze fired, or even cared???... Bottom line is, the trigger was accidently pulled while the gun (GLOCK, you know the one with 3 safeties including that "safe action" trigger) was in his pocket and he ended up with a hole in his leg!!!...Could have been, just as easily, another patron... Bet he wishes his gun would have had a manuel safety...YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!

very well said.. here's your sign..

 

[pyper22]

why not just ask S&W, WHY, and see what their answer is. pyper

 

[bpickell]

The reason I want an external safety on a handgun, is in the event that a bad guy grabs my handgun, chances are he will not know it has a safety giving me an advantage to get my gun back without being shot.

Is it really that hard to put a safety on a handgun? I am finding it increasingly difficult to find a good quality handgun with a safety.

 

[Fastbolt]

why not just ask S&W, WHY, and see what their answer is. pyper

I did that very thing in an armorer class.

The answer was pretty simple ... and Capt Crunch nailed it earlier.

The anticipated military pistol testing being discussed back when the M&P 45 was in development specified a model equipped with one, and S&W pretty much built the M&P 45 so it would meet the anticipated specification requirements. (That's also why the M&P 45 had a different extractor pin, making it potentially easier for military armorer service & repair.)

Naturally, once a certain segment of the commercial public found out there was a M&P 45 made with a thumb safety, they wanted it.

Then they wanted the manual safety available on the other models. (Of course)

The sudden public demand reportedly caught S&W by surprise. They ended up having to revise their frames and sear housings to accept the thumb safety (which, as has been mentioned, blocks the trigger bar).

Of course, once it became a production feature ... then a certain segment of people complained about having thumb safeties.

They apparently listened to the market studies when they were designing the M&P Shield, and included the manual safety as a "standard" feature.

Naturally ... big surprise ... people are complaining about it having a thumb safety.

Hard to please everyone, isn't it?

FWIW, I have a pair of M&P pistols ... 1 w/thumb safeties & 1 w/o. Both work just fine for me.

 

[bpickell]

I did that very thing in an armorer class.

The answer was pretty simple ... and Capt Crunch nailed it earlier.

The anticipated military pistol testing being discussed back when the M&P 45 was in development specified a model equipped with one, and S&W pretty much built the M&P 45 so it would meet the anticipated specification requirements. (That's also why the M&P 45 had a different extractor pin, making it potentially easier for military armorer service & repair.)

Naturally, once a certain segment of the commercial public found out there was a M&P 45 made with a thumb safety, they wanted it.

Then they wanted the manual safety available on the other models. (Of course)

The sudden public demand reportedly caught S&W by surprise. They ended up having to revise their frames and sear housings to accept the thumb safety (which, as has been mentioned, blocks the trigger bar).

Of course, once it became a production feature ... then a certain segment of people complained about having thumb safeties.

They apparently listened to the market studies when they were designing the M&P Shield, and included the manual safety as a "standard" feature.

Naturally ... big surprise ... people are complaining about it having a thumb safety.

Hard to please everyone, isn't it?

FWIW, I have a pair of M&P pistols ... 1 w/thumb safeties & 1 w/o. Both work just fine for me.

I just purchased an M&P 40. Do you know if it is possible to install the optional thumb safety in a model that does not have one? The model I bought did not come with one.

 

[Maddmax]

The reason I want an external safety on a handgun, is in the event that a bad guy grabs my handgun, chances are he will not know it has a safety giving me an advantage to get my gun back without being shot.

Is it really that hard to put a safety on a handgun? I am finding it increasingly difficult to find a good quality handgun with a safety.

Those chances are more than likely slim and none and the BG already has the advantage, they aren't dumb. He already attacked you taking advantage, he has your gun and chances are good he already knows how to use it, safety or no saftey. Chances are you'd already be disabled from the first attack and couldn't fight to get it back.

 

[Shield06]

Im sorry but this is by far the dumbest thread iv read on this forum. If the safety botheres buy another gun. Its a safety incase the trigger is pulled. There are instances were ppl put finger on trigger on accident and pull the trigger. Quit bitching overnstupid **** please.