Why I chose the 15-22 over the 522
- Thread starter hey15-22
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Some have stated from a loose end cap their accuracy drops. That is expected. Tighten it up, the accuracy comes back. Now for "flexing," that comes from the barrel being tied into the upper by a polymer handguard. I have personally never experienced this, nor do I believe it's true. Many people I have seen, heard, or talked to haven't had a problem with it.
Aceman58
Member
I had the pleasure of shooting a Sig 522, great rifle, accurate and feeds well. The S&W M&P is also a great rifle, I'm a little partial to the M&P since training with it all these years. I guess what I really love is the adaptbility aspect of the AR design platform, one rifle can be made to over 100 different types based on shooting needs and requirements. Tactical sniper mode, high volume squad support mode to compact mode, you name it, the AR can be made to it. You won't find that in many other rifle design, way to go Mr. Stoner.
The M&P 15/22 just opened up the AR to a new level of fun with still the adaptbility of the full size brother. S&W did their homework, landed right on the money if you ask me. Also maintainance, is a breeze on the M&P 15/22, a function you won't find in other tactical 22. Kudos to Smith and Wesson. I would love to see the M&P go 17HMR or 22 WMR, can you imagine the flexibility of this platform.. Enjoy...
The M&P 15/22 just opened up the AR to a new level of fun with still the adaptbility of the full size brother. S&W did their homework, landed right on the money if you ask me. Also maintainance, is a breeze on the M&P 15/22, a function you won't find in other tactical 22. Kudos to Smith and Wesson. I would love to see the M&P go 17HMR or 22 WMR, can you imagine the flexibility of this platform.. Enjoy...
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Nice thread, hey15-22! I enjoyed reading through your decision process because I go through the same laborious decision-making too. I guess by now you've picked up your 15-22 and I hope it's working well, though I'm sure it is. I would have picked it over the Sig as well.
I ended up buying the Colt M4 .22lr because I wanted something that looked and weighed about the same as a real M4, even with all its warts. Turned out to be a fine rifle just like the 15-22s I've shot. Just feed it the ammo it likes and you're GTG. Let us know how it works!
Don't worry, I haven't ignored S&W, I have three handguns and a stripped M&P-15 lower receiver I built up with a Daniel Defense upper receiver and other good components. I call it Dan Wesson!
I ended up buying the Colt M4 .22lr because I wanted something that looked and weighed about the same as a real M4, even with all its warts. Turned out to be a fine rifle just like the 15-22s I've shot. Just feed it the ammo it likes and you're GTG. Let us know how it works!
Don't worry, I haven't ignored S&W, I have three handguns and a stripped M&P-15 lower receiver I built up with a Daniel Defense upper receiver and other good components. I call it Dan Wesson!
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Aceman58
Member
Hear a bit about the weight of the M&P as compaired to the Colt or Sig. This only comes in play with military and some L.E. applications. In military, the AR is your wife/spouse what ever. It stays with you, on you, around you 24/7. You hump with it day in and day out, that is the only time weight is a factor. Civilians can add all the **** they want because it is only carried from the vehicle to a range, and if anyone is complaining about that, oh well, maybe shooting isn't there thang!
In fact weight helps the recoil down, more mass less movement. Our soldiers will find the lightest components to add to keep the weight down and even then they don't complain, because when the [Creative Spelling Of Profanity Not Allowed - phil] hits the fan, Miss Ar must perform her magic, weight and all.. Just my .02 cents....
In fact weight helps the recoil down, more mass less movement. Our soldiers will find the lightest components to add to keep the weight down and even then they don't complain, because when the [Creative Spelling Of Profanity Not Allowed - phil] hits the fan, Miss Ar must perform her magic, weight and all.. Just my .02 cents....
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I have both and use them for different reasons. I find the 522 to be more accurate and has a way better trigger out of the box. It is also constructed of higher quality materials and feels like an actual rifle (both in feel and weight) where as the 15-22 feels like a toy to me.
However, the 15-22 ergonomically speaking, matches my full size caliber AR's, so it's a great training tool. I did have to spend money to get the trigger where it needed to be on the 15-22 as the factory trigger was absolutely horrible. Also, as stated earlier, the mags on the M&P are proprietary and open on the sides vs. the BDM mags that the 522 uses which crosses over for usage in other .22 AR conversions like my spikes tactical dedicated .22 upper. However, the 15-22 mags seem like they would take more of a beating than the BDM mags. Just my opinion.
on a side note, the sig is more compact and transportable because of the folding stock. It fits in a much smaller bag vs. the 15-22. (unless you break it down)
They both have their place. Both have been reliable for me. The 522 has been 100% flawless thru over 10k rounds of bulk ammo. Not one hiccup!! The 15-22 has had the occasional fail to extract once or twice but nothing major.
I would say, get both!
However, the 15-22 ergonomically speaking, matches my full size caliber AR's, so it's a great training tool. I did have to spend money to get the trigger where it needed to be on the 15-22 as the factory trigger was absolutely horrible. Also, as stated earlier, the mags on the M&P are proprietary and open on the sides vs. the BDM mags that the 522 uses which crosses over for usage in other .22 AR conversions like my spikes tactical dedicated .22 upper. However, the 15-22 mags seem like they would take more of a beating than the BDM mags. Just my opinion.
on a side note, the sig is more compact and transportable because of the folding stock. It fits in a much smaller bag vs. the 15-22. (unless you break it down)
They both have their place. Both have been reliable for me. The 522 has been 100% flawless thru over 10k rounds of bulk ammo. Not one hiccup!! The 15-22 has had the occasional fail to extract once or twice but nothing major.
I would say, get both!
I agree 100% about the use of a .22lr for home defense !!!
rraisley
Member
Modifying an argument in favor of .22 handguns for self defense:
When I told a buddy I got a 15-22 for self defense, he replied that the only thing that would do is p*ss the intruder off. I then said, "Well, in that case, I'll p*ss him off 25 times."
Another site said of various handgun rounds, that the only people who complain that the (insert caliber here - .22, .25, .32, .380) is not sufficient for self defense, have never been shot by them.
When I told a buddy I got a 15-22 for self defense, he replied that the only thing that would do is p*ss the intruder off. I then said, "Well, in that case, I'll p*ss him off 25 times."
Another site said of various handgun rounds, that the only people who complain that the (insert caliber here - .22, .25, .32, .380) is not sufficient for self defense, have never been shot by them.
silly argument assuming you have time to fire all 25 rds of .22 while he's shooting at you with a .45. yes bigger is better but modern technology has gotten rounds to be more effective than they used to be so i would recommend at least a 9mm or .38 for self defense. of course, any weapon is better than no weapon but dont get overconfident with a fun gun.
Good choice!!.. i am also not afraid to grab my 15-22 in a time of need.. i have quick but safe access to a 25rnd mag of Winchester He segmenting rounds and a mag loaded with stingers.. my 15-22 goes bang every time with higher quality ammo...
So that means at will i have 50 rounds capable of causing enough force an shock to stop someone quickly. That little 22 will mess some stuff up quickly.. 22lr is.notorious for ricochets chances are that one hipower round is gonna.penitrate hit a vital bounce off a bone hit same vital or another..
It takes 30? Lbs of force to penitrate enough to hit a organ.. is it the best choice? Not always will it work? For sure!! With the ability flr quick properly placed follow up shots
So that means at will i have 50 rounds capable of causing enough force an shock to stop someone quickly. That little 22 will mess some stuff up quickly.. 22lr is.notorious for ricochets chances are that one hipower round is gonna.penitrate hit a vital bounce off a bone hit same vital or another..
It takes 30? Lbs of force to penitrate enough to hit a organ.. is it the best choice? Not always will it work? For sure!! With the ability flr quick properly placed follow up shots
tork'd
Member
OK fire away
personnally i prefer to use my mossberg 500 for my home defense firearm.
several reasons why i think it works for me. i have no idea how many pellets there are in a shell with 00 buck,( i plan on counting one day), but i know i can not pull the trigger on a 15/22 that many times in such a short amount of time. it is located within arms length of where i sleep and is a rack away from being ready to fire.
i have tried just about every firearm i have to prove to myself my choice was a good one, including the 15/22. i simply can not load a mag, hit the bolt release and be on target as fast as i can with the mossberg. i do not want to take a chance on my being able to hit a target with one small projectile when a bunch of them "seems" to be a better choice.
i know most will not give a rats rearend about my oppinion, as we all know the best oppinion is our own. when it comes to protecting the ones i care deeply about, i want to be as quick as i can. my back up plan is a wife that is deadly accurate with a s/w 357.
personnally i prefer to use my mossberg 500 for my home defense firearm.
several reasons why i think it works for me. i have no idea how many pellets there are in a shell with 00 buck,( i plan on counting one day), but i know i can not pull the trigger on a 15/22 that many times in such a short amount of time. it is located within arms length of where i sleep and is a rack away from being ready to fire.
i have tried just about every firearm i have to prove to myself my choice was a good one, including the 15/22. i simply can not load a mag, hit the bolt release and be on target as fast as i can with the mossberg. i do not want to take a chance on my being able to hit a target with one small projectile when a bunch of them "seems" to be a better choice.
i know most will not give a rats rearend about my oppinion, as we all know the best oppinion is our own. when it comes to protecting the ones i care deeply about, i want to be as quick as i can. my back up plan is a wife that is deadly accurate with a s/w 357.
Kayback
Member
It's all about shot placement. If you miss with any gun it's better to hit with a .22.
As for home defense, bullet selection is important. I prefer a 5.56 over a 12 guage for home defense, but I live in a brick and mortar house. All firearms over penetrate in a house with drywall. Selecting a frangible or soft tip 5.56mm round is better than using M193 or heaven forbid M855. I'm quite happy using my 7.62x39mm for home defense, but then I'm not running M43 rounds in it either.
Shotguns are too user intensive for home defense IMHO. You're only gonna get one chance at it or it may cost you your life. The manual manipulation between each round is too easy to mess up. The slow reload means if you need more than your 6, you are in trouble. The weight of the gun is too high when compared to an AR. And you do still need to aim the thing. At most indoor ranges the shot will still be in one clump.
The AR user interface is aim and fire for 30 rounds, mag changes are quick. Up close 5.56mm is a good cartridge, practice is easier and will probably done more than the 12 guage.
For the .22 for home defense I'd probably stick with Stingers or a Hyper Velocity load that was reliable in the gun. Long range accuracy isn't an issue at 7m. Just remember the sight offset.
As for light weight .vs heavier guns, Really? While I might not hump my AR through mountains..... oh wait, I do. It's called hiking. Duh. As do hunters.
Also it depends on the type of shooing you are doing. I use my 15/22 for 3 gun matches, and the lighter the gun the faster it moves between targets and the less inertia there is to overcome to stop it on target. The .22 recoils so little that weapon weight will not make a difference to recoil management.
As for home defense, bullet selection is important. I prefer a 5.56 over a 12 guage for home defense, but I live in a brick and mortar house. All firearms over penetrate in a house with drywall. Selecting a frangible or soft tip 5.56mm round is better than using M193 or heaven forbid M855. I'm quite happy using my 7.62x39mm for home defense, but then I'm not running M43 rounds in it either.
Shotguns are too user intensive for home defense IMHO. You're only gonna get one chance at it or it may cost you your life. The manual manipulation between each round is too easy to mess up. The slow reload means if you need more than your 6, you are in trouble. The weight of the gun is too high when compared to an AR. And you do still need to aim the thing. At most indoor ranges the shot will still be in one clump.
The AR user interface is aim and fire for 30 rounds, mag changes are quick. Up close 5.56mm is a good cartridge, practice is easier and will probably done more than the 12 guage.
For the .22 for home defense I'd probably stick with Stingers or a Hyper Velocity load that was reliable in the gun. Long range accuracy isn't an issue at 7m. Just remember the sight offset.
As for light weight .vs heavier guns, Really? While I might not hump my AR through mountains..... oh wait, I do. It's called hiking. Duh. As do hunters.
Also it depends on the type of shooing you are doing. I use my 15/22 for 3 gun matches, and the lighter the gun the faster it moves between targets and the less inertia there is to overcome to stop it on target. The .22 recoils so little that weapon weight will not make a difference to recoil management.
As I said a year ago, my only concern with the 22lr round is that it doesn't always go bang. I wish there was some study that had % misfire, ftf, etc vs. a centerfire round.
I think quickness and accuracy are most important. You read all the time about a shootout at 10 feet where of 20 shots nobody get's hit, or just 1 hit.
Agree with Pirobro post.
I think quickness and accuracy are most important. You read all the time about a shootout at 10 feet where of 20 shots nobody get's hit, or just 1 hit.
Agree with Pirobro post.
Gopher Slayer
Member
I agree 100%.
I trust my 870 over anything for HD. I use 00 buck and #4. The side saddle has 3 slugs and 3 more 00. I don't plan on ever using the slugs, but they're there.
I've put three not so well placed rounds into the same gopher and he still didn't die right away. That can't happen with 9 pellet 00 buck or #4, there's nothing left of it after the first shot.
REM 3200
US Veteran
Kayback
Member
I don't use my .22 as a primary defensive weapon, but if it is all I had I would use it.
That being said I wouldn't suggest anyone gets a .22 or any description as a self defense weapon.
I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, but whatever weapon you chose to defend your family with, practice practice practice. And get good training with it. Then practice more.
You'll probably never need a firearm to defend yourself, but if you do you'll have the rest of your life to do it correctly.
KBK
That being said I wouldn't suggest anyone gets a .22 or any description as a self defense weapon.
I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, but whatever weapon you chose to defend your family with, practice practice practice. And get good training with it. Then practice more.
You'll probably never need a firearm to defend yourself, but if you do you'll have the rest of your life to do it correctly.
KBK
I had this debate when the so called tactical 22s started arriving on dealers shelves. I bought all three, the Colt/Umarex M4, the Sig 522 and the S&W M&P15-22. Now of those three if I had to narrow it down to just one it would be an easy choice, the M&P15-22. The Colt IMO is poorly designed junk, it looked cool but try taking one down for cleaning. The Sig 522 is a very good rifle with my only dislike is that the bolt doesn't lock open on the last shot. Otherwise it's an accurate and reliable rifle. The M&P15-22 is everything I want out of this type of rifle. It is extremely well designed and built and I just love the feel of it. It is the only rifle of the three that operates and takes down as it's centerfire big brother and since I love ARs it's the natural choice.
Some people here have touched on using a 22 for home defense and again IMO it would be an excellent choice. In my 31 years in law enforcement I've seen many people done in quite effectively with a 22. Ever wonder why the 22 is the calibre of choice for OC hitmen? Smith & Wesson hit a home run with the M&P15-22 and it has earned a well deserved reputation since it release.
Some people here have touched on using a 22 for home defense and again IMO it would be an excellent choice. In my 31 years in law enforcement I've seen many people done in quite effectively with a 22. Ever wonder why the 22 is the calibre of choice for OC hitmen? Smith & Wesson hit a home run with the M&P15-22 and it has earned a well deserved reputation since it release.
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Majorlk
Member
I hope you mean 18.5 inch.
Yup, typo!
Majorlk
Member
If it's such an excellent choice, did your department mandate you carry something in .22 LR? I'm betting not. If you could choose your duty firearm, did you carry a .22? Bet not. There's not a single LE department in this country that issues .22s as a duty firearm.
The 22 LR is a favorite of hit men only on TV. When the so-called hit men do use it, it's because of the relatively low noise level and nothing more. The only worse SD round than a .22 LR is a .25 ACP.
Advice like your's will get some ignorant homeowner killed.
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