Why is DoD flowing US$ out to other countries?

[Arthury]

I am kinda puzzled why the DoD has made major decisions to spend lots of US tax-payors' money on products that are made outside the US.

Two prime examples are:

1. M9 standard side-arm --- made by an Italian firearm company called Beretta
2. M16 - made by a large Belgium firearms company called Fabrique National d'Herstal (FN).

Notes

• I have to note that the DoD did require these companies to build factories in the US to manufacture these firearms but I would think that most of the profits would still go back to the foreign parent companies; otherwise, why bother to bid for the DoD contract, right?
• Please be aware that the M4's are all made by Colt.
• Just to give them a benefit of doubt, I am sure these decisions were made with a lot of pushing and shoving from politicians rather than the top brass in DoD.

Questions:

• Are there no US-based companies that can do this at the same costs with just as good performance?
• Why pick a foreign company for such basic and widely used firearms. I understand the Beretta choice was a US-NATO deal trying to establish US troops presence in Europe in return for choosing Beretta. Was the FN deal also similar?
• What should the priorities be? Picking the best firearms for our soldiers or making political deals at the expense of our troops? Allowing whatever wealth we are left with to flow to other countries even for basic military needs?

 

[Andy Griffith]

The M9 is a Beretta design, but it is made here in the US- not in Italy. Yes, money does flow back overseas to Italy, but many Americans are employed in it's manufacture.

Also, most M16's in military circulation are Colts, with a spattering of other makers (General Motors, FN). Most M4's are also Colts. I believe FN is the primary maker of the M249's though. The FN made arms for the US military are made either in South Carolina or their other facility here in the US.

All we can hope for, although it is a small chance, is that when the US military does decide to retire the M9, that they will be offered for sale/auction so us regular law-abiding citizens can have a chance to own one or more...on the cheap.

 

[Arthury]

Also, most M16's in military circulation are Colts, with a spattering of other makers (General Motors, FN). Most M4's are also Colts. I believe FN is the primary maker of the M249's though. The FN made arms for the US military are made either in South Carolina or their other facility here in the US.

Yes, Colt did make the earlier ones but most of the later models, like M16A2, A3, A4 are manufactured by FN.

The point is this: there are, at least, 25 AR15 manufacturers in the US that are selling AR15 in the US, both for the civilian market and international market. Don't we have the skills and abilities to do it?

 

[hatt]

With all the money we waste everyday I can't believe anyone's worried about a few $$ profit that get back to foreign firms that build guns in the US.

 

[mkk41]

If you think that's bad , yer in for a real bad day if you look up just how many BILLIONS of US defense dollars are paid to forgien owned companies.

You don't really think 100% of our military aircraft , ships , combat vehicles , weapon systems , and other hardware are made by US companies exclusively , do you?

There's a number of British owned companies (BAE , Cobham) who are among the top US defense contractors and sub-contractors. I know , I work for one.

Granted , the work is done here in America , paying good wages and benefits to US veterans and citizens. But just like the top US owned defense companies , these companies have locations all over the world. It's a world economy.

 

[LVSteve]

Are there no US-based companies that can do this at the same costs with just as good performance?

It would appear not. The US also seems to have a shortage of people with either the talent or will to work in the defence field. A British friend of mine was pretty much head hunted by the DoD to do a particular job because there was nobody able or available in the US to do it.

 

[DeadAye]

It isn't just the DoD that's mandating that OUR money be spend overseas!!
Those CFL light bulbs that we're going to HAVE to buy pretty soon ARE NOT and CANNOT be made in the USA due to the mercury in them.

We will be FORCED to buy a product made in China!

What in the world is going on here?????

The argument is that they save a LOT of energy -
&
It's for the children.

Unfortunately, those kids don't live here.......

 

[Andy Griffith]

It's for the children.

Unfortunately, those kids don't live here.......

That is my new quote- consider it stolen!!!!

 

[Rule3]

Why do you think the DoD would be any different??

What is made in this country anymore??

Ya there is the web site of US products but it's pretty dismal and try and actually find the stuff.

 

[pinduck]

What is made in this country anymore? Welfare recipients.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Why did they buy the M9? Because way back circa 1985ish the Beretta 92 and the Sig P226 were the only two pistols that passed testing. Smith and Wesson did have an entry and it lost - the frame cracked. Oops. The Beretta then won on the basis of cost, coming in cheaper than the Sig.

Sig Sauer went on to provide some P228s as the M11, the P229 to the Coast Guard, and the P226 to the SEALs, among other things.

The FN Mag 58 aka the M240 series GPMG has been around for a long time. The United States could have actually adopted it - arguably one of the best designs of its type - instead of the M60. But there was a push to use a domestically designed made GPMG. The result was a weapon that wasn't as good as what FN had. Eventually the FN design was adopted and so was the M249, a sort of scaled down version. Why were they adopted? Because they work.

American Companies are free to submit designs whenever there is a weapon's trial. So are foreign companies. It has been that way for a while - there was a chance that the 1911 would have never been and that the .45 Luger would have become the U.S. martial sidearm.

FN won the contract for newer M16 variants (and some M4s if memory serves) by producing a quality product at a good cost. There's lots of companies in the U.S. that make ARs, or at least assemble them, but for various reasons FN turns out a good product at a good cost.

Now if you want to complain about something, the Fulton GI angle head lights have been replaced with a version made in Taiwan, the old E tools replaced with a cheap folding PRC made green shovel like you'd get at Walmart, and the canteen cups are now made in China.

 

[Arthury]

What is made in this country anymore? Welfare recipients.

You can add state and federal prisoners, who are living a better life (air-conditioning, gym, etc) than hard-working citizens.

 

[wheelgun28]

Another good question to ask is why are so many US companies being bought and run by foreign corporations?

Why is it the European companies can compete or beat us and they have more regulation, tighter environmental rules and big unions?

We are doing something wrong...

As someone told me, if you dont like the money going to foreign corporations, buy the stock and keep your share here.

 

[Arthury]

Another good question to ask is why are so many US companies being bought and run by foreign corporations?

Why is it the European companies can compete or beat us and they have more regulation, tighter environmental rules and big unions?

We are doing something wrong...

Many govn'ts abroad have more aligned goals when it comes to running a country.

For instance, Singapore, is tiny country that is run like the corporate world. The govn't hires and competes in the open market for the most qualified and is most willing to offer and match competitive salaries. I am not too sure if our Govn't is hiring the best, based on the decisions they are making.

The other thing is moral standards and the act of enforcing the law. We have low moral standards when it comes to choosing for the country versus for ourselves (careers) and it is quite clear which way our politicians are picking. Additionally, we also do not have the backbone to enforce the law when it comes to corruption in the Govn't. The sentence is definitely too light so, it does not deter anyone from being corrupt. Internal audits and anti-corruption enforcement are very heavy-handed in Singapore. Consequently, very few dare to touch the cookie jar when it is not the official time to eat cookies, so to speak.

Lastly, where on earth did all the good old patriotism of the Founding Fathers go to? Have our patriotism gone so diluted?

As someone told me, if you dont like the money going to foreign corporations, buy the stock and keep your share here.

I am not too sure about this as it offers more money for foreign companies to finance their expansion and r&d fundings to improve their product lines.

 

[Rule3]

We are doing something wrong...

Yes, that "something" is nothing!

Where I live in Florida they only major thing that kept our economy going was construction and all the major trade jobs that went with that. This trickled down to retail and services. We have no major industries other than agriculture and that is also destroyed by foreign imports and produce from California,

Now that there is no housing boom. everything is dieing a slow death.

It doesn't take a PhD in economics to see that when you import more than you export you are gonna lose.

 

[LVSteve]

Another good question to ask is why are so many US companies being bought and run by foreign corporations?

Why is it the European companies can compete or beat us and they have more regulation, tighter environmental rules and big unions?

We are doing something wrong...

As someone told me, if you dont like the money going to foreign corporations, buy the stock and keep your share here.

Union power in Europe is a misconception created largely by the strife of the 1970s in the UK. Government regulation has greatly reduced union power as well as that of business management. The word from government to both sides was "grow up and get along". As a result, people stay at the good companies longer, building a deeper understanding of the subject matter than is found in many US defence contractors.

Sadly, too much of US industry, especially in the defence field, still "operates" with a highly adversarial relationship between management and workers. Much of this I believe is due to having too many former military in management who know little of modern civilian life. The military industrial complex types cling to the "war economy" ethos and then wonder why qualified civilians they employ leave when faced with their attitude. These cold war dinosaurs have not accepted that there are lots of other opportunities in non-defence jobs where you can work in buildings with windows and not be barked at.

Consequently the US defence industry ends up being staffed by those who simply wish to continue their previous military service, those who cannot get another job and a small core of bright, very patriotic types who just turn round and say "bite me" when the militaristic BS starts up. Does this mean that America has the best in its defence industries? Probably not, and the result is more work and dollars going to foreign (some more foreign than others) companies as only they can meet the need.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I would be overjoyed to see our troops get AK-47's-or almost anything other than an "M-16," but what would make me the happiest would be to see them all come home, with no more losses. Flapjack.