WHY is new brass ALWAYS too short for "trim to length" before reloading?

[HorizontalMike]

I have "tried" to search this, but with one only one irrelevant result, so I am asking out-loud. WHY?


Case In point:... I have 500 "each" of high quality Nosler AND Lapua Rem .222 brass ready to load, HOWEVER, I have/see a major roadblock too being able to reload "precisely" for this caliber since:

• It has not been fired,
• AND the "trim to" length is TOO short for current reloading data.

Yeah, WE ALL KNOW THAT THAT does not stop a round from going bang. My question lies with HOW can I measure/predict my loads in VIRGIN brass without having to shoot an entire 1,000 rounds of it, just to have it "conditioned" for reloading?

 

[ruggyh]

I have/see a major roadblock too being able to reload "precisely" for this caliber since:

You are over thinking it

For precision all your brass need to as identical as possible

be safe
Ruggy

 

[muddocktor]

What ruggyh said is definitely correct. Since we are talking about straight wall rimmed cartridges most probably, case length per se isn't the most important criteria. Having them consistently the same OAL makes more difference, as with the cases being the same length your bullets will be seated the same and your roll crimps should be very similar.

I see people post here saying that they never trim 38 or 357 or 44 brass, but I've found that over time you get a wide disparity in overall case length on the same batch of brass. I don't trim them very often, but I do give my rimmed straight wall cases a trim occasionally to even out the case OAL.

 

[Univibe]

Trim length is a maximum length. Cases get longer as they are fired and resized. You'd expect factory new or once fired pickup brass to not be maximum length. The idea behind trimming is (2) safety--you don't want brass to get too long such that it interferes with headspace, gun going into battery, etc. (2) uniformity--translates to accuracy.

 

[Peak53]

Looks like you are going to have to shoot your new .222 brass a time or two, THEN measure and trim to your preferred length. I know. Frustrating that the new under length brass is probably not equal in length, meaning your crimp point and OAL may vary. Oh, well.

 

[Culina]

Just curious, are you re-sizing the new brass you have before reloading it for the first time?

 

[M29since14]

With your new brass, the overall length (if a bit short) is not critical. Don’t worry too much about that. Gage length to the headspace datum is much more critical to accuracy. That will likely be short, too. If it is, there is really nothing you can do about it except fire the brass a couple of times.

Benchrest shooters who are really concerned with ultimate accuracy usually use only a few cases at a time and size them as little as possible. If you need 1,000 cases, for a prairie dog hunt or something, all you can do is test for accuracy with loads assembled with new brass, but whatever you find, short overall case length is not what you’re interested in. Gage length to the headspace datum of your particular rifle’s chamber is your big concern. The closer your brass is to that, the better your rifle should shoot with the new brass - theoretically.

 

[Engineer1911]

Minimum group size

So Mike you live in balmy downtown Texas. You need the following conditions for minimum group size:

1. No wind, calm day with temperature in the high 60's ° F so there is no mirage to obscure your target.

2. Rock solid shooting bench / position to minimize rifle movement while shooting.

3. Perfect scope / eye ball alignment to eliminate all parallax errors between your eyes, scope crosshairs, and the target.

4. Perfect brass sized to your chamber dimensions with a Sharpie index mark so that every round is loaded with the same orientation, IE index mark is same position on each headstamp and loaded at 9:00 o'clock position for consistency.

Or you can load your ammunition using data for Overall Cartridge Length from the bullet manufacturer so the loaded round chambers easily in your rifle. If the powder manufacturer's load data uses a shorter OAL it will work just fine, just don't load the ammo longer than what bullet manufacturer lists.

I have personally shot 30,000+ rounds of 222 Remington ammo made from resized 223 Rem military or commercial brass over a 12 year time frame that killed thousands of prairie dogs. Wind velocity had more affect on my group size than anything else. Case length variation of -0.005" to -0.012" is only detectable by your caliper. The rifle and the target will never know the difference in group size.

It is time to back off mentally on this case length issue, select your load date, reload and shoot. Stop worrying about things you cannot control. How many granules of powder are you loading into each case?

 

[M29since14]

To get back to your WHY question, the manufacturers probably know handloaders generally dislike trimming. It’s tedious work. They’re not going to penalize themselves by shipping brass that is too long. Of course long brass that is not properly trimmed before use could result in a safety issue, too. So, given the legal-beagle issue, normal manufacturing tolerances, and marketing concerns, it doesn’t seem likely your typical brass supplier will be shipping stuff much in excess of a trim-to length. My thoughts on the matter. No doubt worth just what was paid for it.

 

[Imissedagain]

Posts #6 & #2 should help you as it’s what most loaders I know do first.

 

[gwpercle]

They trim it at the factory.....if it arrived brand new needing trimming that would be a pain in the derriere' ....Your new car is sold tuned up right ?
Think how it would be to buy a brand car that needed a tune up.....

 

[HorizontalMike]

GOOD STUFF...!

So Mike you live in balmy downtown Texas. You need the following conditions for minimum group size:

1. No wind, calm day with temperature in the high 60's ° F so there is no mirage to obscure your target.

2. Rock solid shooting bench / position to minimize rifle movement while shooting.

3. Perfect scope / eye ball alignment to eliminate all parallax errors between your eyes, scope crosshairs, and the target.

4. Perfect brass sized to your chamber dimensions with a Sharpie index mark so that every round is loaded with the same orientation, IE index mark is same position on each headstamp and loaded at 9:00 o'clock position for consistency.
Not me... TOO much...


Or you can load your ammunition using data for Overall Cartridge Length from the bullet manufacturer so the loaded round chambers easily in your rifle. If the powder manufacturer's load data uses a shorter OAL it will work just fine, just don't load the ammo longer than what bullet manufacturer lists.

I have personally shot 30,000+ rounds of 222 Remington ammo made from resized 223 Rem military or commercial brass over a 12 year time frame that killed thousands of prairie dogs. Wind velocity had more affect on my group size than anything else. Case length variation of -0.005" to -0.012" is only detectable by your caliper. The rifle and the target will never know the difference in group size.

It is time to back off mentally on this case length issue, select your load date, reload and shoot. Stop worrying about things you cannot control. How many granules of powder are you loading into each case?

~20.0 -- 22.00gr H322 with Sierra 53gr MatchKing. Will work up loads 0.5gr apart to 22.0gr. I figure 5-each at each step. All loads trickled on a RCBS505.

Can't use my home range (too close to neighbors) AND don't have 200yd... I'll need to figure a time of minimal use of public range, to make it easier to set up chrono or LabRadar.

Thanks to ALL for all feed-back above! Makes much sense...

 

[bigedp51]

Shoot your new .222 cases and they will expand to fit the chamber and become even shorter. And if you full length resize and squeezing these cases they will grow and become longer.

I just bought some Prvi Partizan 30-30 cases and they were all were shorter than minimum trim length. So I trimmed them all to the same length so the crimps would all be uniform.

Bottom line, if they are cases that require a crimp then trim them all to the same length. If the cases are not to be crimped then just shoot them until they need trimming.

 

[fredj338]

IT is purposely short so you do NOT have to trim it to get it to fit a saami min chamber. I FL size all my new brass, check for OAL, 99% do not need trimming. There will be no appreciable accuracy diff between cases with a small variation in neck length. If I were trying to win a BR comp, then I am shooting once fired brass that is all uniform. For dumping vermin, wont matter to as far as you can hit IMO.

 

[DWalt]

You are over thinking it

For precision all your brass need to as identical as possible

be safe
Ruggy

Absolutely - as long as the cases are of uniform length, it doesn't make that much difference how long the CL is. Find the shortest length case you have and set your trimmer for that one. After the first firing, neck size only. The second task is to find the correct COAL for whatever bullet you are using. It makes a big difference.